Disussion - Is College Worth the Cost?

nanmarmour - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:56PM ET

Overall: 1/5
This is a folksy discussion of a serious question, that is totally lacking in sound analysis. It is more likely to misguide a young reader than to provide them with solid advice.
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:50PM ET
Overall: 1/5
Quick answer: Unless you need a degree for professional certification purposes, such as to become a civil engineer, architect or accountant, don't waste your time or your money. The ROI calculation has most definitely changed, because the cost of the degree has skyrocketed while wages and benefits have stagnated. I'm not saying "don't get an education", just that the status conferred by a BS or BA is not needed to attain an entry-level white collar job. The exception again is those positions that specifically require a degree as a professional certification. IT'S A WASTE OF MONEY AND TIME!
srg99 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:38PM ET
Overall: 2/5
A well-intentioned article in that it draws on evidence, but there are some factual inaccuracies and poor assumptions. In addition, the overall assumption is that the ROI on college education is not as high as it used to be and that there are many alternatives. In fact, more than ever, a college degree is a minimum requirement to achieve a "middle class" lifestyle in the U.S., though it's very true that only about 30% of jobs *require* a BA. If you look at the BLS forecast, I believe the future forecast is for this to go up to 34-35%, and keep in mind it's the higher-level jobs that are less likely to be off-shored. Plus, those other 70% of jobs desirable to most people? I understand the private college example was an extreme. The fact is nearly 80% of all of the 17 million students who attend a degree-granting college in the U.S. in a given year attend PUBLIC institutions. So the vast majority of students are at state colleges/universities and community colleges. As the article notes at the start, referring to "experts," there is a huge bias in the media and among legislators in this country toward assuming private colleges are most desirable or most common, because that's the experience of those groups. The most glaring factual innacuracy in the article is the statement that careers as "nurses and physical therapists; network systems and database administrators" can be achieved with just an associate degree. In nursing, a field with a tremendous labor shortage, the BS degree is rapidly becoming the de-facto standard, after decades of an associate degree or diploma in nursing sufficing. To be a Physical Therapist, the minimum credential is a Master's degree and the preferred and increasingly mandated credential is a Doctoral degree (DPT), so that assessment is way off. In computer systems and networking, it's the lower level jobs that DON'T require a BA/BS that are being offshored. So, higher levels of education are required to be competitive here. It's not 1999 when everyone and their neighbor was getting a low-level certificate to be an IT administrator and taking home big bucks. The comment about for-profit colleges was also a sweeping generalization. There are many that provide a better ROI when you consider their unique programs/curriculum, and many others that outperform non-profit colleges on job placement and learning outcomes. However, I agree due diligence is necessary and not all are created equal.
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:37PM ET
Overall: 2/5
Education is only half the story, train a monkey to stack up boxes to reach a banana and the monkey will never realize there's other fruits besides bananas. I never finished college, was never the smartest one in school but I was motivated, driven and determined to make it somewhere. I worked hard and am now reaping the rewards of my hard work. Making a 6 figure salary at a privately held healthcare organization, while doing outside consulting work as a side job. I learned everything I know thru discovery, hands on experience and training thru co-workers and others. People gave me the opportunities because they saw my determination, motivation and my dedication to do the very best that I can do. There is absolutely nothign wrong with the cookie cutter approach to life, doing everything as you are told to do and everything as it is in the standard cookie cutter design. I took the road no one wanted to travel and made something out of it. I believe that the challenges I had to overcome because of this choice is something a 4 year degree in college can not compare with.
Erin - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:23PM ET
Overall: 3/5
My man Albert Einstein said it best: "Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school. " If you focus on the $$$ your life will be miserable. Find work in a field you are passionate about....if you need a degree for that work then go get one. If not then college is a total waste of time and an even bigger waste of $$$. If you love your job you will be successful in every area of your life including financially.


Erin - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:23PM ET
Overall: 3/5
My man Albert Einstein said it best: "Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school. " If you focus on the $$$ your life will be miserable. Find work in a field you are passionate about....if you need a degree for that work then go get one. If not then college is a total waste of time and an even bigger waste of $$$. If you love your job you will be successful in every area of your life including financially.
lper98 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:15PM ET
Overall: 5/5
One can get an excellent education at most local public colleges. It is important to have good study skills and to be very well organized. After your first job, employers do not care where you went to school, only on the skills you bring to the job. Written by a college grad with lots of work experience.
wjwildcats97 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:14PM ET
Overall: 1/5
The lifetime earnings spread is old news. I would like someone to acknowledge the cause-effect relation behind those numbers. Crude Example: take a moron, give him a degree from Harvard and he is still a moron and will likely earn moron wages. Take a brilliant driven person with no degree and they will still have above average earnings. The fact of the matter is on the average smarter more driven people go to and finish college. It is not the education or the degree that is making them more money than their lazier stupider counterparts. Most of these higher caliber individuals would have had higher earnings regardless of their degree.
busycapital - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:10PM ET
Overall: 2/5
I have 2 Masters Degrees, one in Law and one in Finance and I am unemployed. In the old days the upper class need an education so that they could set themsleves above normal people. Now, the upper class tells you that if you pay 30K a year for an education, all your dreams will come true. Education is just another way for the upper class to stay rich. I learned it the hard way.
Doogie - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:00PM ET
Overall: 4/5
Not all colleges are created equal and certainly not all degrees are created equal. An engineering or math or quantitative heavy business degree will indicate a person who has a higher aptitude and is more likely to perform at a superior level to his/her peers. A liberal arts degree, especially in fill-in-the-blank studies, is no more an indicator of post high school aptitude than high school itself. Same is true for most private schools that no one has ever heard of (and some that we've all heard of). If you want a return on your investment (stripping away the ancillary value of college) then get a degree in a major that is employable. Also, the network you develop in college can be one of your greatest assets and sources of employment, which in very valuable at a name brand college and worthless at a non-namebrand college. As for the commentors that think an apprenticeship with an electrician or similar is a better route than college, consider the friends you will make, the spouse you'll end up with, and the lifestyle you'll be resigned to. The money may be similar to a white collar profession (banking, management, etc.) but it's a lower class life inhabited by lower class people. It's also permanent...a doctor can always be a carpenter but a carpenter can never be a doctor. Overall, I like the premise of the article. There are too many people pursuing useless degrees at worthless colleges, many of which are drowning in debt to do so. But it's not my life, so who cares?
aventorini1 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 1:58PM ET
Overall: 5/5
Great article!! One of the many myths of attending college is that a college degree can guarantee you success or a job. Your work ethic and talents guarantee your success in your financial life, not a college degree! I have a masters degree in social work, and a husband who flunked out of college and is now working in construction. At my highest paying social work job, my husband still made more money than I did. Now, I know that social work isn't a high paying job. And I am grateful for that degree because going to college taught me a lot about myself, and the knowledge I gained far outweighed the costs of that degree. However, I truly believe that the reason why my non-college degree husband is so successful is because he picked a talent he liked, and that he is good at, and he capitalized on it. I know a man who just received his MBA and has never worked in his life. I have a feeling that this individual will have a very hard time finding a good paying job to pay off those loans, because he has no working experience. I'm not saying that he will never find a job, I'm just saying that it will obviously be difficult for him. You cannot gain knowledge about real life from a textbook, you do that through experience and through working (internships, etc) at your profession of choice!! I also know of another person who is paying over $40,000 a year for her daughter's education, to which her major is in theatre. They have so much other debt. They don't have any money for retirement, and they put off fixing their leaking roof for 5 years, and now as a result they have major wood damage on their roof. My husband had to up the bid on the work to an additional $2000 so they can fix the wood-- and guess what, they don't have the $2000!! Talk about your financial priorities being messed up!! College is great, but it isn't everything! Thanks for a very informative article!!
sagrious - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 1:55PM ET
Overall: 4/5
This is the only time I've seen someone actually look at the cost/benefit relationship of paying for college. I think the 28% figure is misleading, since many companies would hire someone with a degree over someone without one even if it's not required. But it was a good article.
pchemsuks - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 1:54PM ET
Overall: 2/5
Anya fails to mention the difference between the BS (Bachelor of Science) and the BA (Bachelor of Arts). Neither nurses nor PTs want a BA. These degrees lack the science courses required for better pay and can hinder advancement. This is an important designation for engineers and other professional degrees. The education you receive at college is valuable, the name of the college is not except for the Ivy League and very few others (Stanford, eg.).
briyotya - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 1:45PM ET
Overall: 2/5
I went to college in engineering and it is worth it, however, I know lots of people, including my own children where it is more important WHAT degree you pursue, rather than just going to college. Lots of peopel with degrees in english, history, general studies, etc end up managing a Mcdonalds or something like that. Some one pointed out many of our most successful people never went to college or didnt finish, like Bill Gates, Michael Dell, Sam Walton, etc. I think it is more important what you study if you go to college, not just going that counts.
mdb - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 1:37PM ET
Overall: 2/5
This article started off poor and recovered slightly towards the end. Repetitive ideas at best. One part that I found exceptionally poor was an inexpensive associate degree earning you a rewarding job as a physical therapist. I don't know what part of the country you did your research in, but you cannot become a registered phyical therapist in my part of the country with a 2-year degree. PT assistant MAYBE, but that does not pay nearly as much. Many schools are now requiring a DPT for physical therapists. Requiring 6 1/2 years of school. Yes, PTs are underpaid so they will remain in middle-class, but it's by no means inexpensive to addend college for it. Also: carpenter and plumber: you do not need an associate's degree for those occupations; and implying that an associate's degree will land you a job as a database administrator or a sales manager is grossly misleading. On the other hand, having a 4-year degree might land you a decent paying job writing poor articles for Yahoo! Anya, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that while you were trying to build "stronger relationships" you fail to pay attention in your research class, but you passed anyway because the degree you went for was a cake-walk.
none - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 1:30PM ET
Overall: 5/5
I rate it five. As anya did a fine job reviewing to readers the pros and cons of college that are relevant to each individual's needs in life. Now, take one step back everyone. Think about the richest people on earth. They are drop-outs (Bill Gates), not-very-highly-educated (Carlos Slim) & (Li Ka Shing). Now, think about who are the middle class: those with BA degrees. But, not very rich. Okay, what does education 'mostly' gives 'the majority' of us? The thinking that we work hard for money 'for our entire life' that we will be rewarded with a higher paying job. All that we think are 'jobs, job, & more jobs'. What do the richest people on earth do? They invest.... School doesn't teach one how to handle his money, how to handle relationship, how to handle social problems. Else, our nation today would be a much better one then when it was first founded by our 4 fathers. Take one step back & think: is education really really that good for everybody. Anya did a good job. Not everyone need higher education if his conceptual advance is already more advance than what the higher education can teach him. Say, why suffer 4 more years in school if becoming a floor trader gives you $150,000 plus per year already? College: the majority of people's thinking for safe route. But, there is always a few out of the ordinary who succeed without a formal higher educationl.
Cindy - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 1:30PM ET
Overall: 3/5
I understand that this is a finance column and so the emphasis is on the monetary rewards that can come with a degree. Still, it must be said that the real, lasting, valuable product of a good college degree is the ability to think. Learning to think critically, much more than the skills needed to perform a specific career, is the treasure that lasts a lifetime and enhances all of life, through the working years and well into retirement.
Mike - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 1:02PM ET
Overall: 5/5
This is a great article and worthy food for thought. I think the overlooked aspect though is the focus on the individual knowing what they want to do prior to embarking on a formal educational experience. Forever I have wondered why secondary schooling curriculums may teach many subjects both complex and arcane but leave actual career strategy development and planning to a voluntary basis. Knowing what you want to do is half the battle and that 57% percent college dropout figure would disintegrate if solid career development was mandatory in schools. Another thing that makes formal education more obsolete is that thirty years ago to be successful they was a larger window of opportunity in corporate America which required the degree as a gate keeping device. Now the focus is on more nimble, small-time operators which ask for real world technical skills and some street smarts more so than a manufactured education. Undergraduate work is invaluable but is only worth the risk and investment if you know with reasonable certainty where it is going to take you.
bitrcollegegradd - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 1:01PM ET
Overall: 2/5
College is overrated and over priced. It all comes down the individual and how they were raised. The truth about college is that it is sold as being necessary but in reality it is a quasi status symbol/right of passage. My favorite part about college was watching the sheltered over achievers loose their minds and get into drugs and sex. Nothing better than getting a phone call from your perfect child 2 ½ years into that ivy league education to find out they’ve changed majors or are pregnant.
slappin_nuts - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 12:53PM ET
Overall: 5/5
One of the best articles considering higher education I have read in a long time. I would challenge Anya to dig deeper into the Community Colleges. As I understand the numbers I have heard -- granted they may be dated -- the community college route serves those who go on to pursue four-year degrees at universities better than those students who go directly to universities and colleges. More CC graduates graduate from four-year schools as a percentage than do those who do not have CC behind them. Where community colleges may not rate is their overall graduation rates which are going to be heavily biased due to the population they serve. Any good student would certainly be wise to take the CC route to higher education if they are value conscience. Bravo for an excellent article.
bogeymanlsl - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 12:50PM ET
Overall: 4/5
this is a very interesting topic that i discussed with my parents and siblings. having graduated from the university of maryland, i would say that college is a great experience. however, from a financial standpoint it would depend on how you approach the situation. I like to think that college can be broken down into 2 aspects. One is tuition, books and anything else that goes along with class. If you are instate and commute. the cost of college is minimal and would most likely benefit you in the long run. However, if you go out of state to get the same education you could have received in state or live on campus instead of commute when it is still possible to commute, i would say that part of college expense should be looked at as a vacation expense. This part in no way helps your future other than the networking and life changing experience college life has to offer. Additionally, the major you pursue has a large role in the value of your education. I majored in accounting, a field that upon graduation will give you a great opportunity for a high paying career. However, for those that majored in something they wouldnt pursue or majored in something with no concrete job application such as communication, I dont know how much the college education is really worth to that person. In conclusion, i think you cant go wrong attending an instate college and majoring in something concrete that will clearly help you get the job you desire.
rationalist_98 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 12:50PM ET
Overall: 2/5
If going to College pays for itself, why should Joe Six Pack who didn't go subsidize Anya who went? The answer is he should not, and Anya should spare us all the constant moaning and groaning about debt. No one forced her to go to Yale and to pick a liberal arts major. She should have gone to a public University and studied medicine or engineering. Choices have consequences. Stop whining and trying to pass onto others the costs of poor decisions you made.
bonescat - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 12:38PM ET
Overall: 4/5
Public colleges are a great deal, and they provide the most options. Having a degree has been a great investment. It provides so many options. While some friends from high school raved about their wages and tips when I was in school, they are paying for it now. They look so worn down now, and their wages are basically the same. They are now going into foreclosure on their homes. Go to college!
HR Dir - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 12:38PM ET
Overall: 5/5
College is worth only what you get out of the time and effort spent. I know a lot of people who went to college, dropped out, or just didn't like their degree and did NOTHING with their education. They would have been better off following this advice rather than going off to college with their parents footing the bill - or worse, taking on debt for a useless education. I earned my BA in 4 years working 36 - 48 hours per week to get tuition assistance from my employer 80%and had my MBA paid for 100% by my employers. No debt. But this isn't practical for everyone. My brother who is about to turn 30 will graduate with his BA next year after years of figuring out what he wanted to do... Since he didn't know at age 18, kudos to him for finding a path and direction without waisting a degree early on. My only regret is that I didn't do something like Peace Corps or AmeriCorps before, during or after college. Since I made the most of my education, maybe when I retire at 40?
alankerrymd - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 12:29PM ET
Overall: 5/5
The article points to an important question: the cost/benefit analysis of paying outrageous tuitions for private schools that will yield a pitiful starting salary for its graduates and not really offer any career mobility by itself. Without naming a specific school, think of a small, 4-year private college in New England that costs over $35K a year to attend. If the school is mediocre (that is, not very difficult to get into and not widely known outside the state it is in), most employers will know that it is a school for mediocre students (and mediocre potential employees). As a result, these students will get low-paying, high-stress, high-burn out jobs when they graduate with little chance for promotion. If they start by making $30K a year, they are better off having their parents put the "college fund" money into a mutual fund and giving them the money in 30 years when they retire. Unfortunately, there are too many below average students getting Bachelor degrees these days which dilute their significance and earning power.
bca0714 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 12:20PM ET
Overall: 5/5
I can't believe the negative comments on this article. Anya, I think you did a great job in weighing out the financial implications of going to college, delaying college, or not going at all. It says right at the beginning of the article that you are biased toward attending college, and that you would only discuss the financial aspects of the story here. People here will criticize you no matter what you say, so don't let it bother you. I think everyone would agree that attending college is an excellent opportunity to learn and grow as a person, but if you can't afford it, it's good to know that you can still be successful. Also the point about not going if you don't know what you want to do is very valuable, especially for those with limited resources.
fbs613 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 12:19PM ET
Overall: 2/5
advice for young people: Unless you are "REALLY" smart (i.e. Ivy type material) or someone else is paying the bill, don't waste time on college. Become a plumber or electrician, or something else of that sort. A good plumber makes more money than most professionals anyway. So unless you are going to be a doctor, dentist, or big firm lawyer, forget the whole thing and go for plumbing or the like
olalab - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 12:09PM ET
Overall: 3/5
I guess the bottom-line of this article is that if you are a below-to-average student without moms and pups money and you do not represent a minority population, you may be just better off continuing "flipping your burgers", then continuing "flipping your burgers" and paying off huge student debts.
Nick Name - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 12:07PM ET
Overall: 2/5
Other than that the articles she writes are mostly stating the obvious and indicates ones doesnt need to go to college to write articles for Yahoo. She looks like an angry lesbian type, in a hot sort of way, that would be good in "Something About Mary: 2"
valhalla360 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 11:56AM ET
Overall: 2/5
She seems to have glossed over the mathamatical portion entirely. She compared two 40 year careers. A more accurate comparison would be a 40 vs 36 year career (35 or 34 is more realistic considering 5 & 6 year students). She never clarified if the $1.2 million is a straight salery comparison, adjusted for inflation, or accounting for compound interest over time. The intangibles are hard to assess, but unless you are going into a high paying field, the money often doesn't justify the cost.
cab997 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 11:54AM ET
Overall: 2/5
There are a number of attractive career choices that offer good prospects for earning an above average income that do not require a degree (electricians, plumbers, contractors, etc.). Most college-educated (heavily indebted) readers have probably shelled out a pretty penny for "trade" work and wondered who really got the better deal.
elmatto1234 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 11:47AM ET
Overall: 1/5
A very empty article. Doesn't really say anything.
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 11:42AM ET
Overall: 4/5
Very good job, real information instead of the unrealistic assertions and random musings of RTK and Trunk. Refreshing.
hwunger - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 11:37AM ET
Overall: 3/5
good article, but do only college grads enjoy "...widening cultural horizons and developing critical thinking, civic participation, healthier living, and stronger relationships..." ??? .... a little biased aren't we hmmmm ?
Jim - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 11:15AM ET
Overall: 3/5
I think the answer to "Should I go to college?" needs to be Yes for just about every young person. I believe that most young people are incapable of making "solo" life decisions when they're still in high school. At age 14-17 we're just too sequestered, living at home and following the rules and norms of our parents to rightfully conclude, "oh, I thought about it and decided I don't need to attend college". Take my word for it, an undergraduate college experience is a crucial development experience, for many of the reasons Anya highlighted. That said, I don't feel the same way about graduate school. How many people are piling on the debt to go to grad school, or uprooting their families to attend grad school in some distant state. I'm not sure the long-term benefits typically outweigh the costs. Attending grad school locally, and with the discipline of your household budget, is probably the best choice. Disclosure: I have two graduate degrees.


Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 11:14AM ET
Overall: 2/5
The issue of job satisfaction and the lifestyle associated with degree-requiring jobs is overlooked completely in this analysis. A naive attempt to measure the value of higher education and other complex life choices in dollars and interest rates is typical of young age or young-age mentality. Values change substantially as we progress in life.
wonko - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 11:02AM ET
Overall: 5/5
Good information about the financial side of the decision to attend college or not.
jtoour1 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:59AM ET
Overall: 1/5
The last 3 paragraphs says it all.
groblix - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:52AM ET
Overall: 1/5
I hate when people act like the only purpose of a higher education is to make more money. I've never managed to reap much financial return on my substantial investments in education, but I am far richer for having received the gift of knowledge. College is not vocational school.
Paul O - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:45AM ET
Overall: 4/5
Well done.
peterverbeke - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:42AM ET
Overall: 2/5
I agree with bfrykman's comment about the huge correlation between people that are going to be successful anyway and those that go to college. However his Net Present Value of money argument is not correct. He should consider that in 40 years the earnings difference will also amount to a lot more than the 1.2 million.
dp_mich - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:37AM ET
Overall: 3/5
There's alot of good information in this article that can benefit a great many people - including PARENTS. However, I believe it is highly worth considering the growth of 80k (the current cost of a 4 year degree at MSU)- in the market, instead of using it to pay for school. Now consider that growth at, say, approximately 9% (the market has actually averaged 12% over the last 40 years) over the next 40 years = a cool 2.888 million at retirement. That beats the college students total earnings by 1.6 and some change. If you take into account the 134k private school, and do the same math, the non college student beats the grad by 3.6 million. Moral of the story, give the kids the money instead, in a secure trust fund, let them party on the weekends at the college of their choice, while they find jobs and work as well - who knows what they may dream up given the time to think entrepreneurial at a youthful age. It's worth thinking about for sure, especially given the unknowns of the future. That being said, all four of my kids are going to college. But, Im starting to wonder??? - thx for reading, good article Anya!
ag55gen - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:33AM ET
Overall: 2/5
Large state schools do a poor job because of the type of faculty and the type of students they attract. The student bodies are interested in the parties. The faculty members are interested in the research. Neither group is interested in undergraduate education. You should understand your own intelligence level before deciding what career to pursue and how to pursue it. Your intelligence is mostly a fixed feature by the time you are 18. If you are in the top 5% of intelligence, then you should probably by a doctor, lawyer, MBA, etc. If you are of average intelligence, you just aren't going to have those options no matter how much education you attempt to undertake.
theeasylife80 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:22AM ET
Overall: 3/5
I graduated in 2006 and had about two years of professional "post-intern" job experience under my belt by the time i graduated. Well, most places still only want to hire you as a freelancer (I'm a writer) and then they ask you to do a million other things for them at severely reduced pay. Living in the northeast, it's especially frustrating because, at 23, i have to take on several different clients to make due and I hardly have enough to buy my own place with these exorbitant and maliciously overpriced real estate costs. if someone had told me, at 18, that going to college would only increase my base pay rate by about $5 an hour, I would've skipped it altogether.
lrking1 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:20AM ET
Overall: 4/5
Finally, someone bucking the trend and questioning the college as a must have for everyone. There are alternatives if you're not the academic-type; follow your heart into a rewarding career and know that you can always make changes as your life changes.
bfrykman - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:20AM ET
Overall: 1/5
Here is the problem with her analysis. First people who successfully negociate the planning, time commitment, and financial commitment of attaining a college degree would probably fare much better in life regardless of whether they obtained a degree or not. The person, therefore, and not the degree is the salient issue in lifetime earnings. Then there is the time value of the money involved. Assuming that one did not need to borrow the cash, which is a very bad idea in the first place, lets look the return on $133,000 invested at 7% for 40 years ( a working lifetime). The return is almost $2,000,000, far exceeding the statistical earnings increase figure that was stated by the author. Additionally, if one enters the workforce four to five years earliers instead of spending the time in college and used that opportunity to save then the figures become more skewed against the value of a college degree. If one goes to college to acquire otherwise very difficult to learn skills that have real value in the job market then go for it. If the object is merely to "get a degree" then you are on the wrong track and you will be wasting your time, your energy and your cash that would be far better used elsewhere. Careers that "require a degree" but require no other demonstrable talent will be low paying regardless of the degree obtained. Most top earners are entrepanuers and a college degree is simply a waste of time for people who would rather set an agenda than to follow one.
Limeaid - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:08AM ET
Overall: 3/5
You should talk to Penelope Trunk about what college means to her. She is an imbecile when it comes to being prepared for a life of work.
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:06AM ET
Overall: 4/5
Good story, makes sense. I think the important part is the additional earnings an educated person will earn. 30 years from now retirement benefit may be gone and it will be entirely up to the worker. The extra dollars an education will yield is relevant. Education doesn't always have to be expensive. there are community colleges and employers who will pay for you to attend. Young adults who may be intimidated by college should not be. It's not about how fast you finish, but that you finish..
Ben D - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:02AM ET
Overall: 3/5
In response to klarich73 who comments on other countries schools being free... they may be free to students, but not everyone can go. Often selection is determined by who you know or scoring at a certain level on a test. In the US anyone who has the drive can go to a college, community or state, thanks to scholarships, grants, and/or loans. This is much prefereable to being told well you didnt score high enough so here is you burger flipper have a nice life. That being said the "expert" needs to do more research. Being in the IT field the only way to be a DBA or Network System administrator without a bachelor's degree is to have 10 years experience, basically the people who were working before there was a degree for this and learned it on the job. Even with that experience though it is challenging for them to move up and God forbid they try and leave their existing company cause most wont look twice at them.
alaura_denon - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 9:59AM ET
Overall: 3/5
This is better than most of your articles as you stayed on point and didn't bring the free lunch into it. However, I think you should address another aspect to higher education than just earning potential. I remember looking at the 10 richest people of the world last year and taking note that of the top five three had no college degree. Indeed Bill Gates who held the top spot for many years is a college drop out. So earning potential is not the sole reason for a degree. Having a college education myself (which I paid for whithout grants or loans) I can say that it is a broadening experience. Being exposed to other cultures, and people tends to take away prejudice. You are generally better at communication and working in a group setting. College is about learning, and what you really do in college is "Learn to learn." People who have been to college learn at a better rate than those who haven't. Having been in the manufacturing industry for fifteen years and trained many thousands of people I can tell you that it is much easier to train someone with college experience, even if they didn't graduate, than someone who has never attended. That is not to say that a person can't excel if they haven't been to college, there are exceptions, but the odds are better for those with at least some college experience. It is also about performing work that is rewarding in terms of personal satisfaction and not just monetary. Some of the lowest paid are our nations educators. These teachers usually choose their profession for personal reasons more than financial gain. And they are required to complete a BA to have the priveledge. They are also required to complete continueing education classes to keep their certification, all while earning a salary which is at the bottom end of the professional line up, and far less than many factory workers with no education. So Anya, write a column about the quality reasons to attend college, life is not all about money.
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 9:57AM ET
Overall: 4/5
This is the first article she has written I mostly agreed with. Also most proffesionals out there don't think about how much some of these other jobs make. Say in CA were I live if you leave HS and become an apprentace Lines Man for the Electric CO. you will earn close to $60K straight time. This will increase to near $100K in 4 years. If you go to college and get a libral arts degree you will never catch up or earn as much. Other skilled trades pay well too. Not everyone needs to go to college.
James G - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 9:57AM ET
Overall: 1/5
I'm still stuck on the fact that this person is the EXPERT voice of my generation. She who has bad credit because she cannot budget and learn to use money. What a decadent thing for Yahoo to do. Light bulb moment---- I know lets let the blind lead the blind. While we're at it how bout a column from Lyndsey Lohan and Paris Hilton on morals and building the perfect family life. Budgeting is easy or at least it should be to one of our nations greatest financial minds. Maybe if she gets ratings low enough she will be asked to move on and they can fill her space with someone who isn't doing just like everyone else out there living in debt. Just because she has a job and book that will pay her enough to get out of debt does not cancel out the fact that she had no idea how to use money before she made much. She would not be successful if she wasn't telling people how she thought they could be successful. Well... maybe she's pretty enough to become the Brittany Spears of finance. To arouse the public interest without talent or a mind is now the American Dream. Live it for us all pretty girl who cannot budget and we will love you for it.
DennisAOK - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 9:53AM ET
Overall: 4/5
At the high end, studies have shown that going to a better state university has a greater financial payoff than an Ivy League school. At the low end, one needs to be careful. In my business we hired a young guy a few years ago with a BBA whose command of English (his mother tongue) grammar and spelling stopped at about the sixth grade. As another reader pointed out, standards have been watered down.
phillynails - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 9:48AM ET
Overall: 2/5
I think Anya needs to do a little more fact checking, at least regarding the field of physical therapy. You can become a physical therapy assistant with an Associates degree, not a physical therapist.
dannyboy - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 9:38AM ET
Overall: 5/5
anya is not single. she is a yale graduate... and i don't agree with all of her work, but she is 100 times more informative than ms. trunk
avgjoedaddy - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 9:26AM ET
Overall: 3/5
It was refreshing to hear an alternative voice to "education, education, education". I returned to college at 40 and have been disappointed with the quality of instruction. Most courses are crammed with way too much material, the profs show up to class with little preparation and a bleeping Powerpoint presentation, and students are basically teaching themselves. Classroom time is essentially wasted and would be better spent reading the gazillion chapters. Then we pay pay pay. Tuition is high, and now they charge hundreds of dollars of "junk fees". I'm paying athletic fee, health fee, parking fee, etc this semester and I'm an online student!! I protested and the University's reply: "We are authorized by the Board of Regents to charge these fees. You can take your complaints to them". OK then. All that complaining, I think it's best to obtain a degree. I agree with Anya would warn anyone to think very seriously about getting into huge sums education debt. The University system is a bastion of arrogance and they don't respond quickly to the needs of their constituents because the don't have too. The value they offer is hit and miss at best. For those of you who don't know what to do, get a Business degree or a Nursing Degree at a reasonable price. While Business or Nursing may not be your career, everyone engages in business and health issues all their life. Both degrees are great foundation to build a life around.
Andrew N - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 9:20AM ET
Overall: 3/5
While it hits some good points, I wish she would have focused more on the community college aspect. In many states (Florida being where I live), receiving a two year associate degree guarantees your acceptance into a state college, with it treated as your first 2 years. Not to mention, the cost is about 1/3rd, and it give you time to change your mind 10 times about where your life is going to end.
G - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 9:06AM ET
Overall: 5/5
'User at 8:12 am'...read the last paragraph of the article. And other commenters, please consider how one could 'add more' and delve into details when the length of the article must be limited to appeal to short attention spans. Let's all ease up a bit and commend good advice for what it is.
vovka91 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 9:01AM ET
Overall: 1/5
This is a terrible analysis of colleges. How is Anya getting paid to spit this garbage out? Better colleges do a better job of graduating you??? NO! Better students go to better colleges... thus they graduate themselves at a higher rate. Cost - benefit analysis of college??? Anya should have done this for herself, I mean after all, she is a columnist, and they get paid crap. What kind of cost/benefit analysis did she do when she decided her major?? Why would anyone in their right mind take advice from her? She is clearly a writer that went to college, without any fundamental business knowledge... Maybe she should just go back abroad if she recommends it so much.
onejohny - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:56AM ET
Overall: 4/5
Mostly very good article with a few errors. The one that comes to mind is the highest paying BA degrees (engineering/computer science) mentioned are actually BS degrees.
Femme Fatale - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:53AM ET
Overall: 2/5
You really need to back up some of your assertions with facts. "Huge public colleges" don't have lower graduation rates, and if they do, then compared to what? Huge publics tend to get better qualified students than less-reputed schools and hence have BETTER graduation rates.
jdude - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:53AM ET
Overall: 3/5
Maryfoltyn is shortsighted. How employable is she? College certainly helps in this regard and opens up chances for advancement. Given the likeliehood for lost earnings by not having a degree, leading to lost retirement savings and the fact that $385,000 will be worth a lot less by retirement time (don't get me wrong - that's a nice chunk, but not enough to maintain what most people would consider a nice middle class living), be wary of her comments. Yes, there are people who do very well without a degree - witness several entrepeneurs - but that's not for everyone and you certainly can't count on success. And yes, the Millionaire Next Door tells us that having one's own non-glamorous business can put them at the top of the wealth heap, it's not for everyone and may provide much less intellectual challenge than many would like. Maybe not going to college worked out very well for her, and great if it did and if this is the path you really want to take, but be careful of generalizing her comments - college opens a lot of doors and on average gives one many more options.
taopraxis - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:51AM ET
Overall: 2/5
Many years ago, maybe 5-10% of the population went to college. They were a select group and most were very intelligent. If 50% of the population now goes to college, you know immediately that college is not what it used to be. Many universities that were once academic hallmarks are now little more than profit-oriented degree mills run by corrupt bureaucratic types. Bottome line, everyone cannot get rich doing the same thing. But, by all means go to college. It is an interesting experience. Just make sure someone else pays for it. If you really belong in college for academic purposes, you should not have to pay, anyway.
Steven - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:41AM ET
Overall: 4/5
A lot better than usual. However, she focuses on the graduation rate of public vs private schools a bit too much. It isn't that the private schools do a "better job" of graduating students, it is the type of students who go to private schools vs public schools. On average, more motivated students of better financial means are more likely to go to private schools, so it shouldn't be surprising that a higher percentage of those students graduate.
swmod52 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:39AM ET
Overall: 5/5
This is an excellent analysis of the current state of college today. Reading it brought into sharp focus the tough decisions I made when I was in college both financial and otherwise. Reading her article I'm also reminded of a girl I met just after winter break my freshmen year. Her roomate was always at the library and we spent a lot of time together alone in her room. Yes the good old days


Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:38AM ET
Overall: 2/5
This column was "light" at best and clearly nothing new. And my guess is that largely she is "preaching to the choir" as most of her audience probably are either college grads or at least understand the benefits of higher education. Somewhat ironically, the article sounded like it was written by someone with very little "world experience" but rather someone who just got out of college and did some research to support her decision and to convince herself that her student loan payments are worth the cost. The true benefits of an undergraduate degree are something that you don't fully appreciate until after you graduate - sometimes long after. I'm glad that she mentioned (albeit briefly) the intangibles of college education. She should also have gone into more depth of the differences between private and public schools (or more accurately small private schools vs. large state schools). Much is gained by attending classes that may have a dozen or fewer students as opposed to a lecture hall with 200. The economic analysis was generally accurate, although she didn't really mention the opportunity cost of both tuition dollars and the time spent in the classroom. When it comes down to it, a financial analysis of college vs. no college is a bit pointless - or at best it is 1-dimensional - as it is hard to put a dollar sign on the benefits of higher education. Ultimately, the money one makes - either after college, or instead of college - has more to do with the person's ambition and goals. There are thousands of entrepreneurs and small business owners out there (Bill Gates to name one) who chose a path other than college and make far more than I do with a Masters. Then again there are some who are content to work at lower wage jobs for the freedom it affords them (i.e. not "taking their job home with them"). I'll be interested in seeing Anya's article on grad school. My guess is that her conclusion will coincide with her situation (if she has an advanced degree, she will recommend one to her readers) but we'll see. My take on an advanced degree is that they are important for someone who needs one to specifically perform their job or to advance in their career. Nothing new there either.
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:12AM ET
Overall: 3/5
Generally this is a good subject and she does bring up some valid points. However I agree that she has not put enough research in regarding the actually education levels required for particular careers, and also did not factor in the opportunity cost of attending college. If you work those four years vs. acquiring debt and invest, etc. It will take a college grad longer to 'catch up', not to mention now that person has 4 years of experience in their trade that will raise their income level. I am an advocate for higher education but I also think entering a trade or occupation that pays well and doesn't require a degree can often be just as high paying and rewarding. I would have liked to have seen some numbers on advanced degrees and to what effect those are worth the cost.
josephrbook - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:06AM ET
Overall: 3/5
A nice read, but one point Anya: based on your first few articles, it wasn't "obvious" that you went to college.
A Publius in training - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:05AM ET
Overall: 3/5
A nice surprise, a well written and thought out column today. However, I do take exception to, "But keep in mind that having to transfer from a two-year to a four-year school makes it more difficult to graduate. More-selective institutions generally do a better job graduating their students, too." Transferring does NOT make graduation more difficult. One must to their homework before taking classes to know how and if the credits will transfer. Some states, AZ that I know of, have agreements in place between all state schools so figuring out what classes to take where can be determined before ever starting. More selective institution do a better job of graduating students? I'd love to see some stats on that. In my experience, attendance drops off significantly after the fall term. Show us the numbers Anya.
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:03AM ET
Overall: 4/5
Good general evaluation. To the comment from Mary, I think you need to go to college
Tom Brown - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 7:18AM ET
Overall: 4/5
An honest evaluation - Very good for a non-engineer!
klarich73 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 6:38AM ET
Overall: 4/5
I think it is great to question the system that endebts college students to this extent. While in other countries university is free, the burden put on US-students is huge and a globalized job market gives no guarantees that these "investments" will ever get paid back in terms of higher salaries. A system that gives positive ratings to students just based on the name of their university is close to corrupt. I would recommend to pick a "cheap" school, learn as hard as possible, soak up every bit of knowledge accessible from books and lectures and then get into a job without a huge debt burden but as a free man/woman. And: spend a semester in a foreign country to learn another language.
maryfoltyn - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 6:32AM ET
Overall: 1/5
My parents let me live at home and gave me the cost of college, I added to that money four years of work, while investing everything now I have $385,000.00 invested that I would not have if I went to college for four years. Does anyone ever factor in the income I will receive from this for the rest of my life when they say going to college pays higher. Mary
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 4:21AM ET
Overall: 5/5
I've just read the title, actually. Wow! Yahoo for kids! I like it.
Jeff L - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 4:14AM ET
Overall: 5/5
This was a bold article. Ms. Kamenetz looked at the facts and came to some conclusions that were beyond the standard mantra - education, education, education. Perhaps she could have mentioned that education is always worth it, in terms not measurable in dollars, if we really apply ourselves. However, she does imply that fairly strongly. Overall, an honest article that gives college bound, or those thinking about enrolling sometime in the future, some general (yet specific enough) information/perspectives to consider.
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 3:25AM ET
Overall: 2/5
Physical Therapy requires a DPT these days and comes out to about 7 years of schooling. It is by no means a "middle-class" career and no one becomes more than an assistant with only an associate's.
a013452 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:02AM ET
Overall: 1/5
There are at least a couple of errors in her column I'd like to address. First, when one compares the numbers, one needs to fully account for the time value of money. For an intelligent, motivated person entering the craft trades, and avoiding college debt, and earning near six figures, about when a college graduate would be entering the workforce, the (properly discounted) free cash flow difference might be quite compelling. Second, as a DBA, I have run into no one in my field that only has an AS (or less). Most have BS degrees, and many have masters degrees. I don't think this lady does adequate research. I think Yahoo should pull her byline. She doesn't do her homework.
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 1:52AM ET
Overall: 2/5
she is wrong about some of the jobs and the level of education they require. physical therapy requires an bachelor's degree and a DPT (doctor of physical therapy) not just an associate degree.