Disussion - Is College Worth the Cost?

nanmarmour - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:56PM ET

Overall: 1/5
This is a folksy discussion of a serious question, that is totally lacking in sound analysis. It is more likely to misguide a young reader than to provide them with solid advice.
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:50PM ET
Overall: 1/5
Quick answer: Unless you need a degree for professional certification purposes, such as to become a civil engineer, architect or accountant, don't waste your time or your money. The ROI calculation has most definitely changed, because the cost of the degree has skyrocketed while wages and benefits have stagnated. I'm not saying "don't get an education", just that the status conferred by a BS or BA is not needed to attain an entry-level white collar job. The exception again is those positions that specifically require a degree as a professional certification. IT'S A WASTE OF MONEY AND TIME!
srg99 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:38PM ET
Overall: 2/5
A well-intentioned article in that it draws on evidence, but there are some factual inaccuracies and poor assumptions. In addition, the overall assumption is that the ROI on college education is not as high as it used to be and that there are many alternatives. In fact, more than ever, a college degree is a minimum requirement to achieve a "middle class" lifestyle in the U.S., though it's very true that only about 30% of jobs *require* a BA. If you look at the BLS forecast, I believe the future forecast is for this to go up to 34-35%, and keep in mind it's the higher-level jobs that are less likely to be off-shored. Plus, those other 70% of jobs desirable to most people? I understand the private college example was an extreme. The fact is nearly 80% of all of the 17 million students who attend a degree-granting college in the U.S. in a given year attend PUBLIC institutions. So the vast majority of students are at state colleges/universities and community colleges. As the article notes at the start, referring to "experts," there is a huge bias in the media and among legislators in this country toward assuming private colleges are most desirable or most common, because that's the experience of those groups. The most glaring factual innacuracy in the article is the statement that careers as "nurses and physical therapists; network systems and database administrators" can be achieved with just an associate degree. In nursing, a field with a tremendous labor shortage, the BS degree is rapidly becoming the de-facto standard, after decades of an associate degree or diploma in nursing sufficing. To be a Physical Therapist, the minimum credential is a Master's degree and the preferred and increasingly mandated credential is a Doctoral degree (DPT), so that assessment is way off. In computer systems and networking, it's the lower level jobs that DON'T require a BA/BS that are being offshored. So, higher levels of education are required to be competitive here. It's not 1999 when everyone and their neighbor was getting a low-level certificate to be an IT administrator and taking home big bucks. The comment about for-profit colleges was also a sweeping generalization. There are many that provide a better ROI when you consider their unique programs/curriculum, and many others that outperform non-profit colleges on job placement and learning outcomes. However, I agree due diligence is necessary and not all are created equal.
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:37PM ET
Overall: 2/5
Education is only half the story, train a monkey to stack up boxes to reach a banana and the monkey will never realize there's other fruits besides bananas. I never finished college, was never the smartest one in school but I was motivated, driven and determined to make it somewhere. I worked hard and am now reaping the rewards of my hard work. Making a 6 figure salary at a privately held healthcare organization, while doing outside consulting work as a side job. I learned everything I know thru discovery, hands on experience and training thru co-workers and others. People gave me the opportunities because they saw my determination, motivation and my dedication to do the very best that I can do. There is absolutely nothign wrong with the cookie cutter approach to life, doing everything as you are told to do and everything as it is in the standard cookie cutter design. I took the road no one wanted to travel and made something out of it. I believe that the challenges I had to overcome because of this choice is something a 4 year degree in college can not compare with.
Erin - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:23PM ET
Overall: 3/5
My man Albert Einstein said it best: "Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school. " If you focus on the $$$ your life will be miserable. Find work in a field you are passionate about....if you need a degree for that work then go get one. If not then college is a total waste of time and an even bigger waste of $$$. If you love your job you will be successful in every area of your life including financially.


Erin - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:23PM ET
Overall: 3/5
My man Albert Einstein said it best: "Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school. " If you focus on the $$$ your life will be miserable. Find work in a field you are passionate about....if you need a degree for that work then go get one. If not then college is a total waste of time and an even bigger waste of $$$. If you love your job you will be successful in every area of your life including financially.
lper98 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:15PM ET
Overall: 5/5
One can get an excellent education at most local public colleges. It is important to have good study skills and to be very well organized. After your first job, employers do not care where you went to school, only on the skills you bring to the job. Written by a college grad with lots of work experience.
wjwildcats97 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:14PM ET
Overall: 1/5
The lifetime earnings spread is old news. I would like someone to acknowledge the cause-effect relation behind those numbers. Crude Example: take a moron, give him a degree from Harvard and he is still a moron and will likely earn moron wages. Take a brilliant driven person with no degree and they will still have above average earnings. The fact of the matter is on the average smarter more driven people go to and finish college. It is not the education or the degree that is making them more money than their lazier stupider counterparts. Most of these higher caliber individuals would have had higher earnings regardless of their degree.
busycapital - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:10PM ET
Overall: 2/5
I have 2 Masters Degrees, one in Law and one in Finance and I am unemployed. In the old days the upper class need an education so that they could set themsleves above normal people. Now, the upper class tells you that if you pay 30K a year for an education, all your dreams will come true. Education is just another way for the upper class to stay rich. I learned it the hard way.
Doogie - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:00PM ET
Overall: 4/5
Not all colleges are created equal and certainly not all degrees are created equal. An engineering or math or quantitative heavy business degree will indicate a person who has a higher aptitude and is more likely to perform at a superior level to his/her peers. A liberal arts degree, especially in fill-in-the-blank studies, is no more an indicator of post high school aptitude than high school itself. Same is true for most private schools that no one has ever heard of (and some that we've all heard of). If you want a return on your investment (stripping away the ancillary value of college) then get a degree in a major that is employable. Also, the network you develop in college can be one of your greatest assets and sources of employment, which in very valuable at a name brand college and worthless at a non-namebrand college. As for the commentors that think an apprenticeship with an electrician or similar is a better route than college, consider the friends you will make, the spouse you'll end up with, and the lifestyle you'll be resigned to. The money may be similar to a white collar profession (banking, management, etc.) but it's a lower class life inhabited by lower class people. It's also permanent...a doctor can always be a carpenter but a carpenter can never be a doctor. Overall, I like the premise of the article. There are too many people pursuing useless degrees at worthless colleges, many of which are drowning in debt to do so. But it's not my life, so who cares?
aventorini1 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 1:58PM ET
Overall: 5/5
Great article!! One of the many myths of attending college is that a college degree can guarantee you success or a job. Your work ethic and talents guarantee your success in your financial life, not a college degree! I have a masters degree in social work, and a husband who flunked out of college and is now working in construction. At my highest paying social work job, my husband still made more money than I did. Now, I know that social work isn't a high paying job. And I am grateful for that degree because going to college taught me a lot about myself, and the knowledge I gained far outweighed the costs of that degree. However, I truly believe that the reason why my non-college degree husband is so successful is because he picked a talent he liked, and that he is good at, and he capitalized on it. I know a man who just received his MBA and has never worked in his life. I have a feeling that this individual will have a very hard time finding a good paying job to pay off those loans, because he has no working experience. I'm not saying that he will never find a job, I'm just saying that it will obviously be difficult for him. You cannot gain knowledge about real life from a textbook, you do that through experience and through working (internships, etc) at your profession of choice!! I also know of another person who is paying over $40,000 a year for her daughter's education, to which her major is in theatre. They have so much other debt. They don't have any money for retirement, and they put off fixing their leaking roof for 5 years, and now as a result they have major wood damage on their roof. My husband had to up the bid on the work to an additional $2000 so they can fix the wood-- and guess what, they don't have the $2000!! Talk about your financial priorities being messed up!! College is great, but it isn't everything! Thanks for a very informative article!!
sagrious - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 1:55PM ET
Overall: 4/5
This is the only time I've seen someone actually look at the cost/benefit relationship of paying for college. I think the 28% figure is misleading, since many companies would hire someone with a degree over someone without one even if it's not required. But it was a good article.
pchemsuks - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 1:54PM ET
Overall: 2/5
Anya fails to mention the difference between the BS (Bachelor of Science) and the BA (Bachelor of Arts). Neither nurses nor PTs want a BA. These degrees lack the science courses required for better pay and can hinder advancement. This is an important designation for engineers and other professional degrees. The education you receive at college is valuable, the name of the college is not except for the Ivy League and very few others (Stanford, eg.).
briyotya - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 1:45PM ET
Overall: 2/5
I went to college in engineering and it is worth it, however, I know lots of people, including my own children where it is more important WHAT degree you pursue, rather than just going to college. Lots of peopel with degrees in english, history, general studies, etc end up managing a Mcdonalds or something like that. Some one pointed out many of our most successful people never went to college or didnt finish, like Bill Gates, Michael Dell, Sam Walton, etc. I think it is more important what you study if you go to college, not just going that counts.
mdb - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 1:37PM ET
Overall: 2/5
This article started off poor and recovered slightly towards the end. Repetitive ideas at best. One part that I found exceptionally poor was an inexpensive associate degree earning you a rewarding job as a physical therapist. I don't know what part of the country you did your research in, but you cannot become a registered phyical therapist in my part of the country with a 2-year degree. PT assistant MAYBE, but that does not pay nearly as much. Many schools are now requiring a DPT for physical therapists. Requiring 6 1/2 years of school. Yes, PTs are underpaid so they will remain in middle-class, but it's by no means inexpensive to addend college for it. Also: carpenter and plumber: you do not need an associate's degree for those occupations; and implying that an associate's degree will land you a job as a database administrator or a sales manager is grossly misleading. On the other hand, having a 4-year degree might land you a decent paying job writing poor articles for Yahoo! Anya, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that while you were trying to build "stronger relationships" you fail to pay attention in your research class, but you passed anyway because the degree you went for was a cake-walk.
none - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 1:30PM ET
Overall: 5/5
I rate it five. As anya did a fine job reviewing to readers the pros and cons of college that are relevant to each individual's needs in life. Now, take one step back everyone. Think about the richest people on earth. They are drop-outs (Bill Gates), not-very-highly-educated (Carlos Slim) & (Li Ka Shing). Now, think about who are the middle class: those with BA degrees. But, not very rich. Okay, what does education 'mostly' gives 'the majority' of us? The thinking that we work hard for money 'for our entire life' that we will be rewarded with a higher paying job. All that we think are 'jobs, job, & more jobs'. What do the richest people on earth do? They invest.... School doesn't teach one how to handle his money, how to handle relationship, how to handle social problems. Else, our nation today would be a much better one then when it was first founded by our 4 fathers. Take one step back & think: is education really really that good for everybody. Anya did a good job. Not everyone need higher education if his conceptual advance is already more advance than what the higher education can teach him. Say, why suffer 4 more years in school if becoming a floor trader gives you $150,000 plus per year already? College: the majority of people's thinking for safe route. But, there is always a few out of the ordinary who succeed without a formal higher educationl.
Cindy - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 1:30PM ET
Overall: 3/5
I understand that this is a finance column and so the emphasis is on the monetary rewards that can come with a degree. Still, it must be said that the real, lasting, valuable product of a good college degree is the ability to think. Learning to think critically, much more than the skills needed to perform a specific career, is the treasure that lasts a lifetime and enhances all of life, through the working years and well into retirement.
Mike - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 1:02PM ET
Overall: 5/5
This is a great article and worthy food for thought. I think the overlooked aspect though is the focus on the individual knowing what they want to do prior to embarking on a formal educational experience. Forever I have wondered why secondary schooling curriculums may teach many subjects both complex and arcane but leave actual career strategy development and planning to a voluntary basis. Knowing what you want to do is half the battle and that 57% percent college dropout figure would disintegrate if solid career development was mandatory in schools. Another thing that makes formal education more obsolete is that thirty years ago to be successful they was a larger window of opportunity in corporate America which required the degree as a gate keeping device. Now the focus is on more nimble, small-time operators which ask for real world technical skills and some street smarts more so than a manufactured education. Undergraduate work is invaluable but is only worth the risk and investment if you know with reasonable certainty where it is going to take you.
bitrcollegegradd - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 1:01PM ET
Overall: 2/5
College is overrated and over priced. It all comes down the individual and how they were raised. The truth about college is that it is sold as being necessary but in reality it is a quasi status symbol/right of passage. My favorite part about college was watching the sheltered over achievers loose their minds and get into drugs and sex. Nothing better than getting a phone call from your perfect child 2 ½ years into that ivy league education to find out they’ve changed majors or are pregnant.
slappin_nuts - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 12:53PM ET
Overall: 5/5
One of the best articles considering higher education I have read in a long time. I would challenge Anya to dig deeper into the Community Colleges. As I understand the numbers I have heard -- granted they may be dated -- the community college route serves those who go on to pursue four-year degrees at universities better than those students who go directly to universities and colleges. More CC graduates graduate from four-year schools as a percentage than do those who do not have CC behind them. Where community colleges may not rate is their overall graduation rates which are going to be heavily biased due to the population they serve. Any good student would certainly be wise to take the CC route to higher education if they are value conscience. Bravo for an excellent article.
bogeymanlsl - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 12:50PM ET
Overall: 4/5
this is a very interesting topic that i discussed with my parents and siblings. having graduated from the university of maryland, i would say that college is a great experience. however, from a financial standpoint it would depend on how you approach the situation. I like to think that college can be broken down into 2 aspects. One is tuition, books and anything else that goes along with class. If you are instate and commute. the cost of college is minimal and would most likely benefit you in the long run. However, if you go out of state to get the same education you could have received in state or live on campus instead of commute when it is still possible to commute, i would say that part of college expense should be looked at as a vacation expense. This part in no way helps your future other than the networking and life changing experience college life has to offer. Additionally, the major you pursue has a large role in the value of your education. I majored in accounting, a field that upon graduation will give you a great opportunity for a high paying career. However, for those that majored in something they wouldnt pursue or majored in something with no concrete job application such as communication, I dont know how much the college education is really worth to that person. In conclusion, i think you cant go wrong attending an instate college and majoring in something concrete that will clearly help you get the job you desire.
rationalist_98 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 12:50PM ET
Overall: 2/5
If going to College pays for itself, why should Joe Six Pack who didn't go subsidize Anya who went? The answer is he should not, and Anya should spare us all the constant moaning and groaning about debt. No one forced her to go to Yale and to pick a liberal arts major. She should have gone to a public University and studied medicine or engineering. Choices have consequences. Stop whining and trying to pass onto others the costs of poor decisions you made.
bonescat - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 12:38PM ET
Overall: 4/5
Public colleges are a great deal, and they provide the most options. Having a degree has been a great investment. It provides so many options. While some friends from high school raved about their wages and tips when I was in school, they are paying for it now. They look so worn down now, and their wages are basically the same. They are now going into foreclosure on their homes. Go to college!
HR Dir - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 12:38PM ET
Overall: 5/5
College is worth only what you get out of the time and effort spent. I know a lot of people who went to college, dropped out, or just didn't like their degree and did NOTHING with their education. They would have been better off following this advice rather than going off to college with their parents footing the bill - or worse, taking on debt for a useless education. I earned my BA in 4 years working 36 - 48 hours per week to get tuition assistance from my employer 80%and had my MBA paid for 100% by my employers. No debt. But this isn't practical for everyone. My brother who is about to turn 30 will graduate with his BA next year after years of figuring out what he wanted to do... Since he didn't know at age 18, kudos to him for finding a path and direction without waisting a degree early on. My only regret is that I didn't do something like Peace Corps or AmeriCorps before, during or after college. Since I made the most of my education, maybe when I retire at 40?
alankerrymd - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 12:29PM ET
Overall: 5/5
The article points to an important question: the cost/benefit analysis of paying outrageous tuitions for private schools that will yield a pitiful starting salary for its graduates and not really offer any career mobility by itself. Without naming a specific school, think of a small, 4-year private college in New England that costs over $35K a year to attend. If the school is mediocre (that is, not very difficult to get into and not widely known outside the state it is in), most employers will know that it is a school for mediocre students (and mediocre potential employees). As a result, these students will get low-paying, high-stress, high-burn out jobs when they graduate with little chance for promotion. If they start by making $30K a year, they are better off having their parents put the "college fund" money into a mutual fund and giving them the money in 30 years when they retire. Unfortunately, there are too many below average students getting Bachelor degrees these days which dilute their significance and earning power.
bca0714 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 12:20PM ET
Overall: 5/5
I can't believe the negative comments on this article. Anya, I think you did a great job in weighing out the financial implications of going to college, delaying college, or not going at all. It says right at the beginning of the article that you are biased toward attending college, and that you would only discuss the financial aspects of the story here. People here will criticize you no matter what you say, so don't let it bother you. I think everyone would agree that attending college is an excellent opportunity to learn and grow as a person, but if you can't afford it, it's good to know that you can still be successful. Also the point about not going if you don't know what you want to do is very valuable, especially for those with limited resources.
fbs613 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 12:19PM ET
Overall: 2/5
advice for young people: Unless you are "REALLY" smart (i.e. Ivy type material) or someone else is paying the bill, don't waste time on college. Become a plumber or electrician, or something else of that sort. A good plumber makes more money than most professionals anyway. So unless you are going to be a doctor, dentist, or big firm lawyer, forget the whole thing and go for plumbing or the like
olalab - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 12:09PM ET
Overall: 3/5
I guess the bottom-line of this article is that if you are a below-to-average student without moms and pups money and you do not represent a minority population, you may be just better off continuing "flipping your burgers", then continuing "flipping your burgers" and paying off huge student debts.
Nick Name - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 12:07PM ET
Overall: 2/5
Other than that the articles she writes are mostly stating the obvious and indicates ones doesnt need to go to college to write articles for Yahoo. She looks like an angry lesbian type, in a hot sort of way, that would be good in "Something About Mary: 2"
valhalla360 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 11:56AM ET
Overall: 2/5
She seems to have glossed over the mathamatical portion entirely. She compared two 40 year careers. A more accurate comparison would be a 40 vs 36 year career (35 or 34 is more realistic considering 5 & 6 year students). She never clarified if the $1.2 million is a straight salery comparison, adjusted for inflation, or accounting for compound interest over time. The intangibles are hard to assess, but unless you are going into a high paying field, the money often doesn't justify the cost.
cab997 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 11:54AM ET
Overall: 2/5
There are a number of attractive career choices that offer good prospects for earning an above average income that do not require a degree (electricians, plumbers, contractors, etc.). Most college-educated (heavily indebted) readers have probably shelled out a pretty penny for "trade" work and wondered who really got the better deal.
elmatto1234 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 11:47AM ET
Overall: 1/5
A very empty article. Doesn't really say anything.
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 11:42AM ET
Overall: 4/5
Very good job, real information instead of the unrealistic assertions and random musings of RTK and Trunk. Refreshing.
hwunger - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 11:37AM ET
Overall: 3/5
good article, but do only college grads enjoy "...widening cultural horizons and developing critical thinking, civic participation, healthier living, and stronger relationships..." ??? .... a little biased aren't we hmmmm ?
Jim - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 11:15AM ET
Overall: 3/5
I think the answer to "Should I go to college?" needs to be Yes for just about every young person. I believe that most young people are incapable of making "solo" life decisions when they're still in high school. At age 14-17 we're just too sequestered, living at home and following the rules and norms of our parents to rightfully conclude, "oh, I thought about it and decided I don't need to attend college". Take my word for it, an undergraduate college experience is a crucial development experience, for many of the reasons Anya highlighted. That said, I don't feel the same way about graduate school. How many people are piling on the debt to go to grad school, or uprooting their families to attend grad school in some distant state. I'm not sure the long-term benefits typically outweigh the costs. Attending grad school locally, and with the discipline of your household budget, is probably the best choice. Disclosure: I have two graduate degrees.


Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 11:14AM ET
Overall: 2/5
The issue of job satisfaction and the lifestyle associated with degree-requiring jobs is overlooked completely in this analysis. A naive attempt to measure the value of higher education and other complex life choices in dollars and interest rates is typical of young age or young-age mentality. Values change substantially as we progress in life.
wonko - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 11:02AM ET
Overall: 5/5
Good information about the financial side of the decision to attend college or not.
jtoour1 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:59AM ET
Overall: 1/5
The last 3 paragraphs says it all.
groblix - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:52AM ET
Overall: 1/5
I hate when people act like the only purpose of a higher education is to make more money. I've never managed to reap much financial return on my substantial investments in education, but I am far richer for having received the gift of knowledge. College is not vocational school.
Paul O - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:45AM ET
Overall: 4/5
Well done.
peterverbeke - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:42AM ET
Overall: 2/5
I agree with bfrykman's comment about the huge correlation between people that are going to be successful anyway and those that go to college. However his Net Present Value of money argument is not correct. He should consider that in 40 years the earnings difference will also amount to a lot more than the 1.2 million.
dp_mich - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:37AM ET
Overall: 3/5
There's alot of good information in this article that can benefit a great many people - including PARENTS. However, I believe it is highly worth considering the growth of 80k (the current cost of a 4 year degree at MSU)- in the market, instead of using it to pay for school. Now consider that growth at, say, approximately 9% (the market has actually averaged 12% over the last 40 years) over the next 40 years = a cool 2.888 million at retirement. That beats the college students total earnings by 1.6 and some change. If you take into account the 134k private school, and do the same math, the non college student beats the grad by 3.6 million. Moral of the story, give the kids the money instead, in a secure trust fund, let them party on the weekends at the college of their choice, while they find jobs and work as well - who knows what they may dream up given the time to think entrepreneurial at a youthful age. It's worth thinking about for sure, especially given the unknowns of the future. That being said, all four of my kids are going to college. But, Im starting to wonder??? - thx for reading, good article Anya!
ag55gen - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:33AM ET
Overall: 2/5
Large state schools do a poor job because of the type of faculty and the type of students they attract. The student bodies are interested in the parties. The faculty members are interested in the research. Neither group is interested in undergraduate education. You should understand your own intelligence level before deciding what career to pursue and how to pursue it. Your intelligence is mostly a fixed feature by the time you are 18. If you are in the top 5% of intelligence, then you should probably by a doctor, lawyer, MBA, etc. If you are of average intelligence, you just aren't going to have those options no matter how much education you attempt to undertake.
theeasylife80 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:22AM ET
Overall: 3/5
I graduated in 2006 and had about two years of professional "post-intern" job experience under my belt by the time i graduated. Well, most places still only want to hire you as a freelancer (I'm a writer) and then they ask you to do a million other things for them at severely reduced pay. Living in the northeast, it's especially frustrating because, at 23, i have to take on several different clients to make due and I hardly have enough to buy my own place with these exorbitant and maliciously overpriced real estate costs. if someone had told me, at 18, that going to college would only increase my base pay rate by about $5 an hour, I would've skipped it altogether.
lrking1 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:20AM ET
Overall: 4/5
Finally, someone bucking the trend and questioning the college as a must have for everyone. There are alternatives if you're not the academic-type; follow your heart into a rewarding career and know that you can always make changes as your life changes.
bfrykman - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:20AM ET
Overall: 1/5
Here is the problem with her analysis. First people who successfully negociate the planning, time commitment, and financial commitment of attaining a college degree would probably fare much better in life regardless of whether they obtained a degree or not. The person, therefore, and not the degree is the salient issue in lifetime earnings. Then there is the time value of the money involved. Assuming that one did not need to borrow the cash, which is a very bad idea in the first place, lets look the return on $133,000 invested at 7% for 40 years ( a working lifetime). The return is almost $2,000,000, far exceeding the statistical earnings increase figure that was stated by the author. Additionally, if one enters the workforce four to five years earliers instead of spending the time in college and used that opportunity to save then the figures become more skewed against the value of a college degree. If one goes to college to acquire otherwise very difficult to learn skills that have real value in the job market then go for it. If the object is merely to "get a degree" then you are on the wrong track and you will be wasting your time, your energy and your cash that would be far better used elsewhere. Careers that "require a degree" but require no other demonstrable talent will be low paying regardless of the degree obtained. Most top earners are entrepanuers and a college degree is simply a waste of time for people who would rather set an agenda than to follow one.
Limeaid - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:08AM ET
Overall: 3/5
You should talk to Penelope Trunk about what college means to her. She is an imbecile when it comes to being prepared for a life of work.
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:06AM ET
Overall: 4/5
Good story, makes sense. I think the important part is the additional earnings an educated person will earn. 30 years from now retirement benefit may be gone and it will be entirely up to the worker. The extra dollars an education will yield is relevant. Education doesn't always have to be expensive. there are community colleges and employers who will pay for you to attend. Young adults who may be intimidated by college should not be. It's not about how fast you finish, but that you finish..
Ben D - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 10:02AM ET
Overall: 3/5
In response to klarich73 who comments on other countries schools being free... they may be free to students, but not everyone can go. Often selection is determined by who you know or scoring at a certain level on a test. In the US anyone who has the drive can go to a college, community or state, thanks to scholarships, grants, and/or loans. This is much prefereable to being told well you didnt score high enough so here is you burger flipper have a nice life. That being said the "expert" needs to do more research. Being in the IT field the only way to be a DBA or Network System administrator without a bachelor's degree is to have 10 years experience, basically the people who were working before there was a degree for this and learned it on the job. Even with that experience though it is challenging for them to move up and God forbid they try and leave their existing company cause most wont look twice at them.
alaura_denon - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 9:59AM ET
Overall: 3/5
This is better than most of your articles as you stayed on point and didn't bring the free lunch into it. However, I think you should address another aspect to higher education than just earning potential. I remember looking at the 10 richest people of the world last year and taking note that of the top five three had no college degree. Indeed Bill Gates who held the top spot for many years is a college drop out. So earning potential is not the sole reason for a degree. Having a college education myself (which I paid for whithout grants or loans) I can say that it is a broadening experience. Being exposed to other cultures, and people tends to take away prejudice. You are generally better at communication and working in a group setting. College is about learning, and what you really do in college is "Learn to learn." People who have been to college learn at a better rate than those who haven't. Having been in the manufacturing industry for fifteen years and trained many thousands of people I can tell you that it is much easier to train someone with college experience, even if they didn't graduate, than someone who has never attended. That is not to say that a person can't excel if they haven't been to college, there are exceptions, but the odds are better for those with at least some college experience. It is also about performing work that is rewarding in terms of personal satisfaction and not just monetary. Some of the lowest paid are our nations educators. These teachers usually choose their profession for personal reasons more than financial gain. And they are required to complete a BA to have the priveledge. They are also required to complete continueing education classes to keep their certification, all while earning a salary which is at the bottom end of the professional line up, and far less than many factory workers with no education. So Anya, write a column about the quality reasons to attend college, life is not all about money.
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 9:57AM ET
Overall: 4/5
This is the first article she has written I mostly agreed with. Also most proffesionals out there don't think about how much some of these other jobs make. Say in CA were I live if you leave HS and become an apprentace Lines Man for the Electric CO. you will earn close to $60K straight time. This will increase to near $100K in 4 years. If you go to college and get a libral arts degree you will never catch up or earn as much. Other skilled trades pay well too. Not everyone needs to go to college.
James G - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 9:57AM ET
Overall: 1/5
I'm still stuck on the fact that this person is the EXPERT voice of my generation. She who has bad credit because she cannot budget and learn to use money. What a decadent thing for Yahoo to do. Light bulb moment---- I know lets let the blind lead the blind. While we're at it how bout a column from Lyndsey Lohan and Paris Hilton on morals and building the perfect family life. Budgeting is easy or at least it should be to one of our nations greatest financial minds. Maybe if she gets ratings low enough she will be asked to move on and they can fill her space with someone who isn't doing just like everyone else out there living in debt. Just because she has a job and book that will pay her enough to get out of debt does not cancel out the fact that she had no idea how to use money before she made much. She would not be successful if she wasn't telling people how she thought they could be successful. Well... maybe she's pretty enough to become the Brittany Spears of finance. To arouse the public interest without talent or a mind is now the American Dream. Live it for us all pretty girl who cannot budget and we will love you for it.
DennisAOK - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 9:53AM ET
Overall: 4/5
At the high end, studies have shown that going to a better state university has a greater financial payoff than an Ivy League school. At the low end, one needs to be careful. In my business we hired a young guy a few years ago with a BBA whose command of English (his mother tongue) grammar and spelling stopped at about the sixth grade. As another reader pointed out, standards have been watered down.
phillynails - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 9:48AM ET
Overall: 2/5
I think Anya needs to do a little more fact checking, at least regarding the field of physical therapy. You can become a physical therapy assistant with an Associates degree, not a physical therapist.
dannyboy - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 9:38AM ET
Overall: 5/5
anya is not single. she is a yale graduate... and i don't agree with all of her work, but she is 100 times more informative than ms. trunk
avgjoedaddy - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 9:26AM ET
Overall: 3/5
It was refreshing to hear an alternative voice to "education, education, education". I returned to college at 40 and have been disappointed with the quality of instruction. Most courses are crammed with way too much material, the profs show up to class with little preparation and a bleeping Powerpoint presentation, and students are basically teaching themselves. Classroom time is essentially wasted and would be better spent reading the gazillion chapters. Then we pay pay pay. Tuition is high, and now they charge hundreds of dollars of "junk fees". I'm paying athletic fee, health fee, parking fee, etc this semester and I'm an online student!! I protested and the University's reply: "We are authorized by the Board of Regents to charge these fees. You can take your complaints to them". OK then. All that complaining, I think it's best to obtain a degree. I agree with Anya would warn anyone to think very seriously about getting into huge sums education debt. The University system is a bastion of arrogance and they don't respond quickly to the needs of their constituents because the don't have too. The value they offer is hit and miss at best. For those of you who don't know what to do, get a Business degree or a Nursing Degree at a reasonable price. While Business or Nursing may not be your career, everyone engages in business and health issues all their life. Both degrees are great foundation to build a life around.
Andrew N - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 9:20AM ET
Overall: 3/5
While it hits some good points, I wish she would have focused more on the community college aspect. In many states (Florida being where I live), receiving a two year associate degree guarantees your acceptance into a state college, with it treated as your first 2 years. Not to mention, the cost is about 1/3rd, and it give you time to change your mind 10 times about where your life is going to end.
G - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 9:06AM ET
Overall: 5/5
'User at 8:12 am'...read the last paragraph of the article. And other commenters, please consider how one could 'add more' and delve into details when the length of the article must be limited to appeal to short attention spans. Let's all ease up a bit and commend good advice for what it is.
vovka91 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 9:01AM ET
Overall: 1/5
This is a terrible analysis of colleges. How is Anya getting paid to spit this garbage out? Better colleges do a better job of graduating you??? NO! Better students go to better colleges... thus they graduate themselves at a higher rate. Cost - benefit analysis of college??? Anya should have done this for herself, I mean after all, she is a columnist, and they get paid crap. What kind of cost/benefit analysis did she do when she decided her major?? Why would anyone in their right mind take advice from her? She is clearly a writer that went to college, without any fundamental business knowledge... Maybe she should just go back abroad if she recommends it so much.
onejohny - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:56AM ET
Overall: 4/5
Mostly very good article with a few errors. The one that comes to mind is the highest paying BA degrees (engineering/computer science) mentioned are actually BS degrees.
Femme Fatale - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:53AM ET
Overall: 2/5
You really need to back up some of your assertions with facts. "Huge public colleges" don't have lower graduation rates, and if they do, then compared to what? Huge publics tend to get better qualified students than less-reputed schools and hence have BETTER graduation rates.
jdude - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:53AM ET
Overall: 3/5
Maryfoltyn is shortsighted. How employable is she? College certainly helps in this regard and opens up chances for advancement. Given the likeliehood for lost earnings by not having a degree, leading to lost retirement savings and the fact that $385,000 will be worth a lot less by retirement time (don't get me wrong - that's a nice chunk, but not enough to maintain what most people would consider a nice middle class living), be wary of her comments. Yes, there are people who do very well without a degree - witness several entrepeneurs - but that's not for everyone and you certainly can't count on success. And yes, the Millionaire Next Door tells us that having one's own non-glamorous business can put them at the top of the wealth heap, it's not for everyone and may provide much less intellectual challenge than many would like. Maybe not going to college worked out very well for her, and great if it did and if this is the path you really want to take, but be careful of generalizing her comments - college opens a lot of doors and on average gives one many more options.
taopraxis - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:51AM ET
Overall: 2/5
Many years ago, maybe 5-10% of the population went to college. They were a select group and most were very intelligent. If 50% of the population now goes to college, you know immediately that college is not what it used to be. Many universities that were once academic hallmarks are now little more than profit-oriented degree mills run by corrupt bureaucratic types. Bottome line, everyone cannot get rich doing the same thing. But, by all means go to college. It is an interesting experience. Just make sure someone else pays for it. If you really belong in college for academic purposes, you should not have to pay, anyway.
Steven - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:41AM ET
Overall: 4/5
A lot better than usual. However, she focuses on the graduation rate of public vs private schools a bit too much. It isn't that the private schools do a "better job" of graduating students, it is the type of students who go to private schools vs public schools. On average, more motivated students of better financial means are more likely to go to private schools, so it shouldn't be surprising that a higher percentage of those students graduate.
swmod52 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:39AM ET
Overall: 5/5
This is an excellent analysis of the current state of college today. Reading it brought into sharp focus the tough decisions I made when I was in college both financial and otherwise. Reading her article I'm also reminded of a girl I met just after winter break my freshmen year. Her roomate was always at the library and we spent a lot of time together alone in her room. Yes the good old days


Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:38AM ET
Overall: 2/5
This column was "light" at best and clearly nothing new. And my guess is that largely she is "preaching to the choir" as most of her audience probably are either college grads or at least understand the benefits of higher education. Somewhat ironically, the article sounded like it was written by someone with very little "world experience" but rather someone who just got out of college and did some research to support her decision and to convince herself that her student loan payments are worth the cost. The true benefits of an undergraduate degree are something that you don't fully appreciate until after you graduate - sometimes long after. I'm glad that she mentioned (albeit briefly) the intangibles of college education. She should also have gone into more depth of the differences between private and public schools (or more accurately small private schools vs. large state schools). Much is gained by attending classes that may have a dozen or fewer students as opposed to a lecture hall with 200. The economic analysis was generally accurate, although she didn't really mention the opportunity cost of both tuition dollars and the time spent in the classroom. When it comes down to it, a financial analysis of college vs. no college is a bit pointless - or at best it is 1-dimensional - as it is hard to put a dollar sign on the benefits of higher education. Ultimately, the money one makes - either after college, or instead of college - has more to do with the person's ambition and goals. There are thousands of entrepreneurs and small business owners out there (Bill Gates to name one) who chose a path other than college and make far more than I do with a Masters. Then again there are some who are content to work at lower wage jobs for the freedom it affords them (i.e. not "taking their job home with them"). I'll be interested in seeing Anya's article on grad school. My guess is that her conclusion will coincide with her situation (if she has an advanced degree, she will recommend one to her readers) but we'll see. My take on an advanced degree is that they are important for someone who needs one to specifically perform their job or to advance in their career. Nothing new there either.
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:12AM ET
Overall: 3/5
Generally this is a good subject and she does bring up some valid points. However I agree that she has not put enough research in regarding the actually education levels required for particular careers, and also did not factor in the opportunity cost of attending college. If you work those four years vs. acquiring debt and invest, etc. It will take a college grad longer to 'catch up', not to mention now that person has 4 years of experience in their trade that will raise their income level. I am an advocate for higher education but I also think entering a trade or occupation that pays well and doesn't require a degree can often be just as high paying and rewarding. I would have liked to have seen some numbers on advanced degrees and to what effect those are worth the cost.
josephrbook - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:06AM ET
Overall: 3/5
A nice read, but one point Anya: based on your first few articles, it wasn't "obvious" that you went to college.
A Publius in training - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:05AM ET
Overall: 3/5
A nice surprise, a well written and thought out column today. However, I do take exception to, "But keep in mind that having to transfer from a two-year to a four-year school makes it more difficult to graduate. More-selective institutions generally do a better job graduating their students, too." Transferring does NOT make graduation more difficult. One must to their homework before taking classes to know how and if the credits will transfer. Some states, AZ that I know of, have agreements in place between all state schools so figuring out what classes to take where can be determined before ever starting. More selective institution do a better job of graduating students? I'd love to see some stats on that. In my experience, attendance drops off significantly after the fall term. Show us the numbers Anya.
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 8:03AM ET
Overall: 4/5
Good general evaluation. To the comment from Mary, I think you need to go to college
Tom Brown - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 7:18AM ET
Overall: 4/5
An honest evaluation - Very good for a non-engineer!
klarich73 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 6:38AM ET
Overall: 4/5
I think it is great to question the system that endebts college students to this extent. While in other countries university is free, the burden put on US-students is huge and a globalized job market gives no guarantees that these "investments" will ever get paid back in terms of higher salaries. A system that gives positive ratings to students just based on the name of their university is close to corrupt. I would recommend to pick a "cheap" school, learn as hard as possible, soak up every bit of knowledge accessible from books and lectures and then get into a job without a huge debt burden but as a free man/woman. And: spend a semester in a foreign country to learn another language.
maryfoltyn - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 6:32AM ET
Overall: 1/5
My parents let me live at home and gave me the cost of college, I added to that money four years of work, while investing everything now I have $385,000.00 invested that I would not have if I went to college for four years. Does anyone ever factor in the income I will receive from this for the rest of my life when they say going to college pays higher. Mary
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 4:21AM ET
Overall: 5/5
I've just read the title, actually. Wow! Yahoo for kids! I like it.
Jeff L - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 4:14AM ET
Overall: 5/5
This was a bold article. Ms. Kamenetz looked at the facts and came to some conclusions that were beyond the standard mantra - education, education, education. Perhaps she could have mentioned that education is always worth it, in terms not measurable in dollars, if we really apply ourselves. However, she does imply that fairly strongly. Overall, an honest article that gives college bound, or those thinking about enrolling sometime in the future, some general (yet specific enough) information/perspectives to consider.
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 3:25AM ET
Overall: 2/5
Physical Therapy requires a DPT these days and comes out to about 7 years of schooling. It is by no means a "middle-class" career and no one becomes more than an assistant with only an associate's.
a013452 - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 2:02AM ET
Overall: 1/5
There are at least a couple of errors in her column I'd like to address. First, when one compares the numbers, one needs to fully account for the time value of money. For an intelligent, motivated person entering the craft trades, and avoiding college debt, and earning near six figures, about when a college graduate would be entering the workforce, the (properly discounted) free cash flow difference might be quite compelling. Second, as a DBA, I have run into no one in my field that only has an AS (or less). Most have BS degrees, and many have masters degrees. I don't think this lady does adequate research. I think Yahoo should pull her byline. She doesn't do her homework.
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 1:52AM ET
Overall: 2/5
she is wrong about some of the jobs and the level of education they require. physical therapy requires an bachelor's degree and a DPT (doctor of physical therapy) not just an associate degree.

Is College Worth the Cost? Part 1

on Tuesday, August 28, 2007, 12:00AM
http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/generationdebt/43193

Many readers have suggested that I tackle a thorny question: Is college worth the cost?
Obviously, I went to college. Most other financial "experts" did, too. So the opinions we give tend to be biased in favor of the many fine experiences that our alma maters had to offer.
For the purposes of this column, however, I'll put aside the important intangible benefits such as widening cultural horizons and developing critical thinking, civic participation, healthier living, and stronger relationships. In strict dollar terms, is that degree going to be worth the parchment it's printed on for Generation Debt?

A Million-Dollar Education

On average, the answer is yes.
While the earnings of people with bachelor's degrees dropped about 5 percent between 2000 and 2004, they'll still earn an average of about $1.2 million more than high school graduates over a 40-year career. Borrowing for college, as most students do, cuts into the return on education, but not by much.
At the extreme end, say you paid for a private college with private loans -- $133,204 at 9 percent. Over 20 years, you'd pay back almost $300,000 -- still leaving a $900,000 average lifetime earnings premium.

Self-Knowledge Is Key

Unfortunately, you can't answer this question on average -- you have to approach it case by individual case. College isn't the default option anymore for a successful life, and just like any investment, there's risk involved. It takes self-knowledge to determine if college is going to be worth the cost for you.
So before enrolling in any higher education program, ask yourself the following questions:

• What do I want to do?

Only about 28 percent of jobs in this country require a four-year college degree. That percentage isn't projected to increase much in the future. Of the top 10 fastest-growing jobs over the next decade, only one requires more than a BA -- ironically, the position of college instructor. (The Occupational Outlook Handbook is an invaluable resource for this and other job information.)

It's true that many of the fastest-growing jobs are low-wage and in the service industry. But the nation also needs nurses and physical therapists; network systems and database administrators; veterinary and dental technicians; carpenters and plumbers; and retail and sales managers, all of which can be rewarding middle-class jobs with just an inexpensive associate's degree.

There are other careers where talent, moxie, and a head start can be worth much more than a BA: actor, artist, dancer, stylist, or makeup artist; entrepreneurs of all stripes; real estate agent; retail manager; club, bar, or restaurant worker; event planner; web and graphic designer, tattoo artist, and so on.

So, if a job like this calls to you, don't be afraid to sidestep college. Take a licensing exam, a business course, or an apprenticeship, and go for it. If you find that you want more education down the road, your work experience will greatly extend the benefits.

What if you have no idea what you want to do? While this would probably put you in the majority of traditional-age freshmen, it's a big mistake to go to college. It makes it less likely that you'll persevere in school, and more likely that you'll get a degree you won't use.

If you're entering college, straining to pay for it, and are totally undirected, think about taking a year off -- maybe in AmeriCorps, maybe abroad. Earn some money and find a focus.

• Where can I get in?

Now let's say you've zeroed in on a field that requires a BA. Lower-cost institutions such as community colleges and state universities (especially for in-state residents) may provide a better value for the money. But keep in mind that having to transfer from a two-year to a four-year school makes it more difficult to graduate. More-selective institutions generally do a better job graduating their students, too.

There are overpriced colleges and good values for everyone, which is why it makes sense to apply to a range of schools. Private colleges with large endowments may provide a more generous financial aid package and thus lower your cost. But here are two rules of thumb to keep in mind:

1. For-profit "career colleges" tend to cost far more than equivalent programs at public colleges, and there have been serious questions about the quality of the management of these schools. Before enrolling in a certificate program, vet it carefully for quality.

2. Don't pay top dollar to go to a private college no one's ever heard of. Prestige is part of the value of private education.

• How much can I pay for it?

Seek an education at a cost that will allow you to pursue the career you studied for. That means keeping down debt.

In a study last year, the federation of state Public Interest Research Groups (PIRGs) found that, based on their debt, 23 percent of public four-year-college graduates can't afford to become teachers, and 37 percent can't afford to be social workers. For private college grads, the numbers are 38 percent and 55 percent.

So if you want to be a social worker, don't borrow the full cost of attendance at Hampshire

College or Sarah Lawrence.

The highest-earning BAs are engineering and computer science students, who pulled down starting salaries of around $50,000 in 2006. According to my calculations, applying the affordability benchmarks used by the PIRGs in their study, these lucky ones can afford to borrow up to $45,000 a year in federal student loans. Liberal arts grads, by contrast, earn just over $30,000 in the first year out of school. If that's your bent, it would be prudent to borrow no more than $16,000.

• How well am I prepared to do?

College definitely isn't worth it if you're going to drop out -- people with only "some college" don't earn much more than high school graduates. Yet it's a sad fact that the six-year graduation rate for students at four-year colleges in the United States is only 57 percent. Notice that that's a six-year rate. Graduating in more than four years is obviously going to raise your cost of attendance.

So how can you buck the trend and get that degree? Do an honest assessment of yourself and your abilities.

If you're deciding between colleges, choose the one that does a better job of graduating its students. Huge public universities have particular problems with this because of overcrowding and students getting lost in the shuffle. Unless you're exceptionally dedicated and motivated, working more than 15 hours a week and/or attending part-time will hurt your chances of graduating.

Finally, if you need to take remedial classes in order to do college work, get those credits out of the way at a community college. Don't pay university tuition for them.

Make It Pay Off

In the end, almost any college experience can be a good value. It depends on how you take advantage of the resources and connections offered, and what you're willing to put into it.
Professor William Coplin, director of the Public Affairs Program at Syracuse University and author of "25 Ways to Make College Pay Off," emphasizes the real-world skills you'll need. "I don't think it's very important what school you go to," he says. "The more hands-on doing stuff, the better."

That means taking internships, volunteering, working jobs in a field related to your interest, and doing everything you can to get ready for the real world.

ZT:怎么结束在美国这种不死不活的生活？

万维读者网 作者: 佚名 2007-08-22 14:16:29

http://news.creaders.net/comment/newsViewer.php?id=746003

国内一流大学本科, 美国一流大学博士, 在硅谷一流公司工作,年薪10来万. 一切好像不错,生活基本没问题. 但和国内的同学亲戚朋友比起来, 总觉得象个小混混, 过着不死不活的生活. 要比钱, 每年存个几万美金, 没比他们多多少; 要比生活水平, 那更差远了, 吃喝住行, 好像都不行; 最关键的是前途, 在这里只能做打工的, 能当个部门经理, 顶天了. 不象国内的, 不是官越做越大, 就是公司越开越大. 象新东方的几个老师, 都成实打实的亿万富豪了.

　　 想要回去找工作, 国内哪能有这么高薪的, 再说靠打工想致富, 在哪里都不现实? 想要回去找事业有成的哥们靠靠, 也拉不下这脸,堂堂美国一名牌大学博士, 还要去投靠中学里经常不及格的, 太对自己过不去, 况且也没到走投无路的地步. 想要回国开公司, 我那几十万美金, 有毛用, 想从银行里当官的亲戚朋友那里捞出来一些, 那即使不犯法, 也得考虑别人的政治前途.

　　国内有不少亲戚朋友在当大公司的老总和银行里管钱的, 总觉得是笔不错的资本. 如果有自己的公司的话, 就是靠正常业务, 也可以做出一些事业来. 在这里混日子, 眼看年纪开始大起来, 都说三十而立, 现在看看自己, 什么都没有. 真是急啊! 再这样下去, 以后中学同学的毕业聚会都没脸去了. 现在一回国, 谁都觉得我们好像在美国受苦受难似的. 尤其人民币一直看涨, 等真的涨上去的时候, 真是什么都没了.

　　不知道有什么地方, 可以找有志同道合, 回国创业的? 譬如象国内的欧美同学会之类.在硅谷一带, 可以经常聚聚的最好了. 有这方面经验的, 多多指教啊. 只要有不是小打小闹的机会, 放弃在美国的一切, 不会有一点犹豫.

　　和大学同学比, 可能能上70%. 和中学同学比, 顶多上50%了. 我在美国有什么? 就一辆车子, 加几十万美金存款. 房子还一直是租的, 因为一直在找回国的机会.

　　我中学同学里, 不说那些有自己公司的, 资产都有上亿的, 就是在国内上上班, 也房子,车子齐了, 还没有贷款的. 存款不会比我少多少. 我们那小破县, 上胡润百富榜的, 都有好几个.

　　有不少是哥儿们. 什么底都很清楚. 况且我们那边那样子也很普遍. 不信的话, 你真可以去我们浙江逛逛的.

　　看看这里的人, 能替人打打工, 安稳过日子, 就觉得不错了.

　　看看我们老家那里, 小学毕业的, 照样有魄力, 搞个横店影视城, 一堆大明星, 大导演, 大记者, 整天都只好来我们小镇上混日子; 那边还有个义乌小商品城, 那里几万个摊位, 开厂摆摊的, 都是初中高中毕业的, 哪个不是每年挣上百万的? 我的那些只有初中高中毕业, 照样走南闯北,说着蹩脚的英文, 国内国外的生意都敢做.

　　这里一堆大博士, 都只想混混日子.要做事, 魄力还是最重要的. 要创业, 看来找中学的哥儿们可能也比找这里的一堆大博士强. 难怪前一阵子, 看了份硅谷里的创业报告, 学术界来开公司的, 99%都要倒闭的.

　　总算彻底明白了一点. 中学的, 要混得比大学的好; 大学的, 要比出国留学的好. 书读多了, 锐气都给磨没了. 幸亏我是浙江人, 没有从小开始的亲眼目睹的熏陶, 要不也要毁在这里. 要创业, 还是得找浙江老乡优先.

　　老家浙江来的,和在美国留学的大学同学比比, 好像混得算不错的. 和中学同学一比, 真是没得比, 有点没脸见人的感觉. 要说教育, 他们自然没人能和我相比. 要说靠得住的关系网, 我也比他们好很多. 可就是没他们做得好. 在美国混, 也就表面工资高一些, 除此之外, 好像什么都不行. 现在有一种强烈的感觉. 人生一但没选好路, 没能跟上大形势, 再这么努力都不行. 选的路, 决定一切.

zt: 毛毛和妹妹

http://blog.creaders.net/jordan/

毛毛和妹妹 's blog

20 Things That Can Alter the Value of Your Home

http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate/article/103340/20-Things-That-Can-Alter-the-Value-of-Your-Home

Here are 10 features that can add value to your home, and another 10 that could reduce the sales price.
Increase home's value
1. An updated kitchen 2. Modern bathrooms3. A well-appointed master suite4. Natural materials5. Curb appeal6. A light, airy spacious feel7. Good windows8. Landscaping9. Lots of storage 10. Basement
1. An updated kitchen. "Kitchens are critical," says Robert Irwin, author of "Home Buyer's Checklist." "Today, people like a big kitchen with a lot of workspace."
They look for solid surface counters and high-quality flooring, such as wood, laminate, tile or stone. And they want newer appliances in working order.

Even if it's not huge, it should have "countertops that are servicable, that aren't going to have to be replaced soon and cabinetry in good condition," says Alan Hummel, past president of the Appraisal Institute. "It has to be well-appointed and large enough to fit your needs."
It also doesn't hurt if it opens onto another room. "A lot of families are looking for that openness," says Hummel.
It helps to have a window over the sink, says Don Strong, a remodeler with Brothers Strong Inc., a Houston remodeling firm.
Be wary if renovations are out of character with the community, such as granite countertops in a subdivision where plastic laminate is the norm.
"Will you sell faster? Yes," says Hummel, CEO of Iowa Residential Appraisal Co., in Des Moines. "Will it sell for more? Not if the appointments you've done are significantly higher quality than the rest of the neighborhood."
2. Modern bathrooms. Buyers are looking for "master baths that give a little room to roam," says Hummel.
A big asset is a spa or a whirlpool tub. "I'm always entertained by the people who have them in the master bath and don't use them," says Ron Phipps, principal broker with Phipps Realty & Relocation Services in Warwick, R.I. "But it's a big feature."
Some other features buyers are seeking are separate showers with steam and/or multiple jets, a double sink, and a separate room for the toilet.
And make sure the plumbing and water heater can handle the job. The pipes have to be large enough to carry an adequate volume of water and the water heater has to be big enough to accommodate it. "You need a bare minimum of a 75-gallon hot water heater and most of my customers have 100 to 150," says Chicago-based home inspector Kurt Mitenbuler.
"You don't want to see that false economy of a $30,000 bathroom but nobody spent a few thousand dollars to upgrade the pipes," he says.
3. A well-appointed master suite. "People are really excited about master suites," says Hummel. The wish list: A luxurious bathroom, lounging areas and walk-in closets.
4. Natural materials. "People like natural materials," says Phipps. "Ceramic tile, hardwood floors, granite. We've gone back to a real appreciation for historically true materials. And simulated works as well. The look is very popular."
In floor coverings -- especially bathrooms or kitchens -- look for ceramic tile or wood rather than linoleum, which can tear, says Strong.
In the rest of the house, wood or laminate products are a plus over wall-to-wall, says Gary Eldred, author of "The 106 Common Mistakes Homebuyers Make (and How to Avoid Them)."
But if you have carpet, it should be a good product and well-maintained so that "a person doesn't have to walk in and think, 'I'm going to have to spend five grand right off the bat," says Strong.
5. Curb appeal. First impressions are everything. A house that appears tidy and well-cared-for will sell more quickly and for more money. A good first appearance can add as much as 10 percent to the value of the home.
6. A light, airy, spacious feel. "People buy space and light," says Myra Zollinger, owner/broker with Coldwell Banker Realty Center in Chapel Hill, N.C. "I have yet to have anybody walk into a really dark house and say, 'I love this.'"
Richard "Dick" Gaylord, president-elect of the National Association of Realtors, agrees. "That's a very big feature," he says. "I haven't sold many homes that aren't bright and airy."
7. Good windows. "People are looking at exposures and windows," says Phipps. "It's been a cold winter for most of the country and energy efficiency is very important."
Insulated windows are always a plus, says Strong. "Typically, they pay for themselves in five years," he says. The cost for an average 2,600-square-foot home is estimated at about $10,000 for new windows, he says.
Well-placed skylights are also a good touch to add value, says Phipps.
8. Landscaping. Mature trees "are worth $1,000," says Strong.
And having outdoor spaces with touches such as pergolas and Victorian garden swings "can be very helpful," says Phipps.
Appraiser John Bredemeyer remembers one $250,000 home in Omaha that had no landscaping at all. "It was stark," says Bredemeyer, former national chair of government relations for the Appraisal Institute, a professional group for real estate appraisers. "It just stood out as unappealing."
Conversely, you don't have to spend a fortune on plants, either. Just keep it "typical with the neighborhood," he says.
9. Lots of storage. Nothing beats an oversized garage, some attic space and plenty of closets. "If you have a two-car garage, do you have extra space for those things we all have -- bicycles, lawn mower, snow blower?" says Hummel. "Space is important."
A nice plus in the master suite? "His and hers walk-in closets," says Irwin.
10. Basement. "If it's dry, it's a plus," says Kenneth Austin, co-author of "The Home Buyer's Inspection Guide." "But it's a negative if it has water problems."
A finished basement adds even more value. "Ten years ago, nobody cared," says Mittenbuler. "Now everybody wants them."


Decrease home's value
1. A pool 2. No garage or small garage3. Garbled floor plan 4. Outmoded appliances or systems5. Stale or overly personal decor6. A bad roof7. Bad location8. Poor maintenance9. Environmental hazards10. A long list of needed home improvements
1. A pool. Forget what you might have heard. An in-ground pool in most parts of the country doesn't automatically raise the value of your home. "I would stay away from pools if you can at all avoid it," says Irwin.
Having a swimming pool will automatically limit your market when it comes time to sell, he says. "It's constant upkeep, they get cracks, when the equipment goes down it's expensive to replace and the liability is high."
Others consider it a mixed blessing. "For the people who want the pool, they're willing to pay for it," says Austin. "But there are an awful lot of people who don't want a pool."
Consider your home value and location. In a million-dollar house, not having a pool is a detraction, says Irwin. "But they won't give you much more" if you do have one.
2. No garage or small garage. Unless you're living in a condo, a retirement community, or historical or in-town neighborhood most buyers will look for at least a two-car garage. "If you don't have a garage, it's a real negative," says Austin. "If you have a one-car garage, that's a problem, too."
3. Garbled floor plan. Small rooms and bathrooms, an inconvenient floor plan or a layout that requires you to access bedrooms or bathrooms through other rooms will detract value from your home.
4. Outmoded appliances or systems. Who wants an electrical system or plumbing system incapable of handling modern conveniences? Would you buy a home if the appliances were worn or broken?
Phipps remembers walking into one house with clients who casually opened the oven door -- and it fell off.
5. Stale or overly personal decor. Sure, red is the hot wall color right now, "but for how long?" says Hummel.
"We've gone into houses where they've had purple or electric green walls," says Austin. "It's a turn-off to many people."
6. A bad roof. Roofs are expensive to replace, and a good roof is considered standard equipment in a house. If your roof has problems, expect to take a hit in the price.
7. Bad location. Phipps remembers one neighborhood with a significant difference in value between the even- and odd-numbered houses. The reason? The odd numbered ones backed on an interstate highway, as well as some ugly utility lines.
As a result, "the even-numbered houses were worth about 10 percent more than the odd-numbered homes," he says.
8. Poor maintenance. "If you've got an old roof and outdated paint, I don't care if you've updated the kitchen, you won't even get the buyer out of the car," says Bredemeyer.
"If you know you've got to have something fixed, fix it," says Zollinger. Otherwise, people "will subtract the cost or not make an offer on the house. And if people think the house hasn't been taken care of, they will wonder what else they're not seeing."
9. Environmental hazards. Besides being a danger to human health, lead, mold or asbestos can kill home value.
10. A laundry list of needed improvements. "It detracts if you have to do work," says Gaylord. "A house that you can move in today -- and it's livable -- is fine."
But a list of must-dos just to conduct everyday life will scare off a lot of potential home buyers. "Especially with first-time buyers," he says. "Most of them are (already) scraping just to get in."

ZT: 在上海相亲 遭遇势利贪婪的“80后”女孩

认识司爽是由于我以前所采访的一位单身男人，邀请我参加的一次聚会，那次聚会实际上是一次相亲的安排，也是一次我所见过的阵容最强大，场面最严肃的类似谈判似的相亲见面会。
　　 见面会安排在上海浦东金葳大厦的88层咖啡厅，那里的咖啡一杯就要88元，我的那位朋友事业小成，还算有点儿身家，就是这些年忙于创业30几岁了还孑然一身，这次如此隆重地安排相亲，看来是对这位未曾谋面的上海女孩动了凡心。
不过他很快就领略到想娶一个上海女孩所要经历的考验了。
　　那天晚上女主角司爽和她的家人晚到了一个半小时，朋友接到她们一家莅临金葳大厦的电话后就站到电梯门口翘首以待，可从电梯里走下老老少少大概有七、八个人之多，就是不见相亲的女主角司爽，朋友有点儿急，忙问一个年龄稍长，一脸精明的女人，被告知女孩正在化妆间，一会儿再上来。等把所有的人都安排到座位上，88元的咖啡人手一杯地开始轻烟缭绕以后，女孩司爽娉娉婷婷地在妈妈的陪伴下走出电梯。
　　女孩的皮肤很好，细瓷般闪着光，眉眼清秀，打扮时尚，是个典型的上海小家碧玉。朋友一看眼睛就有点儿发亮，显然很满意，一招手，服务生果盘、冰淇淋又上了一堆，还没等朋友开口，介绍人却介绍起来，我说这个女孩相亲她们家好像全部出动，看来还真是这样，爸爸、妈妈、外公、外婆、大姨妈、小姨妈、舅舅、舅妈，大概她们家有时间的都来了。
　　看他们的装扮不像是经济条件特别好的家庭，果然，司爽妈妈开口的第一句话便是：“黄先生，你的两套房子不是贷款买的吧？”司爽爸爸的第一句话是，“侬是上海户口吗？”司爽大姨妈的第一句话是：“黄先生，你家里将来是要请保姆的吧，阿拉这个外甥女可是什么都不会做噢。”
　　我是做为黄先生的朋友列席这个相亲见面会的，但看到女方家属两轮话题谈下来，都没离开那个“钱”字，就差要求黄先生提供存款证明了，我有点儿不爽，插了一句话：“小姑娘蛮漂亮的，会做饭吗”
　　没想到这句让正焦头烂额疲于应付的黄先生稍微喘了口气的话，引起了司爽妈妈的大为不悦：“侬说的这叫什么话呵，会做饭吗？侬可以去打听打听，现在几个独生女儿会去学烧饭，我们宝贝还来不及呢，舍得让女儿去烧饭？再者说了，我这女儿一路名校读下来，那是门门功课都是最优秀的，我们小学读的是××小学，上海最好的学校，中学读的××中学，上海最好的中学，大学也是上海最好的大学，而且，正因为这么优秀才被留校做助教，这么优秀的女儿，会去给你们烧饭吗？侬不要太搞不清呵。”　看到司爽妈妈在这个问题上反应如此强烈，我也有些意外，黄先生也窘在那里，为了找台阶下，我只好讪讪地说，“那，她不会烧饭，小夫妻将来怎么过日子呵，毕竟，过日子是实实在在的呀。”
　　“哼，”司爽妈妈白了我一眼，“现在是什么时代了，那种要老婆过日子伺候男人的观念早过时了，老婆是娶来疼的，不是娶来用的，这么优秀的女孩嫁给你，我们都不舍得让她烧饭，会让她给你这么做吗？不会烧饭怎么了，可以吃馆子呀，我可以去给他们做呀，再者说，可以请保姆呀，请不起保姆的男人我女儿也不会嫁呀。”
　　不管怎么说，让我这一掺和，那天的相亲会不欢而散，我有点儿觉得对不起朋友黄先生，我告诉他我正在做第一代独生子女婚恋的调查，我想请他原谅我，可他苦笑了一下摆摆手，“不是你的问题是我的问题，我不但两套房子都贷的款，还不想将来家里请保姆，我娶老婆是要用的，这不对他们的胃口，这门亲不成也罢。”
　　正在黄先生准备放弃的时候，介绍人又传过话来，说女孩那边提出只要黄先生能够保证结婚前把房子一次性付清了，他们还是愿意交往一段时间的，因为黄先生的确外形也不错，况且，只比女孩大6岁，女孩自己也挺愿意的。
　　也许是真的有点儿一见钟情，黄先生竟满口答应了他们的条件，正当我为朋友黄先生单身多年终于有了成家的的希望而高兴时，与26岁的女孩司爽热恋了三个多月的黄先生从上海给我打来了长途电话：“代沟，代沟，我们之间是完全不可能正常交流的两代人，我是真的喜欢她，可真不敢下娶她的决心。最近，她妈妈催我给她买三克拉的钻戒订婚，三克拉的钻戒呵，名牌的要50多万呀，她们真的以为找到大款了，我不过是正在努力的小老板罢了，为了把房子买下来，我已经在节衣缩食了，连高尔夫都很少打了，为了娶老婆让自己的生活品质下降得如此之快，我都快要崩溃了。”
　　尽管朋友满腹怨言，可我听得出，他真的很爱那个女孩，并且，已经在为结婚娶她做准备了。
　　可听朋友说，这钻戒不买，女孩连约会都很不积极了，自认为已经付出很多的黄先生有点儿承受不了了。某天，他突然告诉我，要带女孩来北京休闲几天，顺便看看北京的钻戒，我有些惊讶，他在电话里苦笑一声，“等我们见了面，你好好替我跟这个女孩聊一下，帮我判断一下，她喜欢的是我这人，还是我的钱，我现在都有点儿搞不清了。”
　　因为在上海跟女孩司爽见过一面，因此，在北京相见就显得很熟络了一下，我主动提出请他们吃饭，看得出来女孩很高兴，吃完饭我们去后海找了个僻静的地方喝茶，朋友借口要见北京生意上的伙伴提前退场，我知道这是在给我时间和空间“调查”这女孩呢。
　　我跟司爽慢慢聊着衣服和化妆品，上海女孩的温婉的确让人很舒服，可她的毫不掩饰的欲望也的确让人感觉到压力。
　　我问她，这次要是买好了钻戒，大概就可以跟黄先生定婚期了吧？没想到她微微一笑，这只是个礼物，并不代表什么，她到现在都无法确定黄先生是不是可靠的男人，怎么能够轻易的嫁呢？
　　我心里一惊：“50多万呢，只是个礼物？这女孩到底是怎么想的呢？”
　　在我的引导下，司爽慢慢地聊起她自己来：
　　我的家境不算好，我父母都是从兵团回来的，我是从小跟外公外婆长大的，我父母结婚很晚，所以，有了我以后，就把我当宝贝一样宠着，什么都不让我做，尤其是我妈妈，她说，女孩只要娇气，漂亮，把书读好就可以了，不需要会做很多事情。
　　所以，我从小到大除了读书这件事会做以外，没有一样能自己做得来的事情，我以为就我这样，进了大学以后，跟我同宿舍的女生差不多都是这样的，我们在一起从来不会比谁会做家事，比的最多的是谁最不会做，谁最懒。平常我们都不会迭被子，谁迭了被子，收拾了自己的床，都会被别的女生给骂一通，有一次我刚迭了被子就检查宿舍，结果，我们被评了个最差宿舍，同宿舍的女生都骂我，还罚我请她们吃冰淇淋。　大学四年，我所有的衣服、袜子都是带回家扔给我妈，周一再由我妈给我送到学校来，其他家不在本市的女生就花钱出去洗，衬衣5元钱一件，内裤、袜子3元钱一件，反正，学校周边有好多小洗衣店就是为大学生服务的。
　　我妈常说，我们家虽然经济条件一般，但我是他们唯一的女儿，她说什么也不会让我比别的孩子差，在我的记忆中，妈妈最爱给我买礼物了。从小到大我得到的礼物数不清，有一次，她用一个月的工资给我买了一条纯金项链，我爸爸很不高兴，说我才十几岁就戴这种东西太奢侈了，为此我们家有半个月没有青菜吃，可我妈就是这样的人，她从来不会让我受半点儿委屈。
　　我读大二的时候，我妈就开始托人给我介绍男朋友了，我妈说了，我们家环境差，想要改变只能靠我嫁一个大款，我的舅舅和姨妈也说，我是我们家第一个到了结婚年龄的女孩子，一定要嫁一个有钱人，给后面他们的孩子做个样板。
　　我开始还觉得有些不以为然，到后来，看到他们的期望都这么高，我也觉得不能嫁个没钱的，我觉得我妈说的对，靠我自己的那点儿薪水，做多少年才能买上房子，还是应该嫁个钱多的男人，这样我很快就能过上好日子，我有钱了，我爸我妈不是也能不用那么辛苦了吗？这时，我才明白，我妈说的“想要改变我们家的命运，就得靠我嫁个大款”的这句话的含义。
　　我以前交往了一个男朋友是新加坡人，他比我大两岁，跟我是校友，我还是蛮喜欢他，他还算大方，送我不少礼物，可后来我妈听说，他父母是在新加坡做教员的，家里也没什么钱，就一定要让我跟他分手，后来他去了美国，这件事我也挺遗憾的，可是没办法，我知道我妈是为了我好才这样坚决的。
　　后来，我姨妈又给我介绍一个美籍华人，他比我大12岁，比较有钱，他说可以带我去美国定居，我可以做一个全职太太，并且，还答应给我父母在上海买套房子，房子我们都看好了，准备订婚的时候，他告诉我他想要三个小孩，二个女儿一个儿子，我吓坏了，我上大学时都跟同宿舍的女孩约定好了，一个也不要生，我不喜欢小孩，更不想自己带孩子，那多可怕呵。我跟我妈说这件事，我妈说，你可以答应他，只生一个，不论女儿、儿子，只能给他生一个，他同意就订婚，不同意就当没跟他谈过。
　　结果，他坚决不同意我的只生一个的想法，他说，我养得起，为什么不能多要几个呢？
　　实际上我本来就跟他没什么共同语言，不过看在能出国和他会给我们家买房子的面子上跟他来往，在这件事情上谈不拢当然是说断就断。
　　后来，我妈妈花了6000元钱，给我到一个高级交友俱乐部注册了会员，据说，到他们那儿登记注册的都是精英阶层、成功人士，因为我年轻，又挺漂亮，俱乐部的人对我非常热情，总是说会把最好的、最有钱的人介绍给我，可一年多过去了，我前前后后也见了上百位所谓成功的人士，竟没有一个可以继续发展的，基本上都是喝一次咖啡或吃一顿饭以后就没了下文，我也很纳闷。　有一次，我偶然在一间咖啡厅遇到了一位曾经跟我见过面的男士，我只是客气地跟他打招呼，他却跑上来说，“司小姐，真是幸会，我地你还是印象蛮好的，你能不能再考虑一下？”
　　他的话让我愣了半天，“我考虑什么呀？”“考虑跟我交往一段时间呵。”我从来没说不能跟你交往呵，“不对呵，俱乐部的人说，你对我没兴趣，不同意跟我交往呵。”
　　这位男士的话让我很惊讶，我很生气地去找俱乐部里的人了解到底是怎么一回事，结果他们内部的一个人悄悄地告诉我，像我这样年轻、漂亮的女孩，俱乐部一般都不会让我轻易地就找到交往对象，他们把我的档案照片留在电脑里越久，他们赚到的钱就越多，因为不少人是因为看了我的资料和照片，就要求跟我见面的，然而，想跟我见面就得交钱，而且，价格很高，一般是贵宾的会员才能安排跟我见面，而那是要交8000到一万元人民币才能达到的级别。见面以后，有不少男士对我很满意，提出要跟我交往，这时俱乐部会告诉他，“人家女孩没看上你，不想跟你交往，我们还是给你介绍别人吧。”
　　一般男人自尊心都很强，听俱乐部的人说没被看上，他们常常都不会再约那个女孩子，就这样我在不知情的情况下，竟成了这家高级交友俱乐部的托儿，我虽然很气愤，但却无法奈何他们，最多是不再去跟他们安排的男士见面了，可我的钱却白扔了。
　　后来，我听说大多数交友俱乐部都这样干，而且，有的俱乐部对年轻的女孩很优惠，让你低价入会，然后，就不停地安排男人与你见面，无形中你就成了他们的摇钱树，但对你是不是能找到自己合适交往的对象，他们并不在乎，而且，为了让你给他赚钱，你就是看好了哪个人，他们也想方设法地给你拆散了，不是说你不好，就是说那个男人太烂，所以，你到这里来常常是因为想要解决婚姻问题，但碰上了这样黑心的交友俱乐部，你就是一辈子也别想碰上合适的人，这其实只是一场骗局。
　　为了报复那家拿我当托儿的交友俱乐部，我答应了那位在咖啡馆里碰上我，一脸恳切的请求跟我继续交往的男士，跟他交往一段时间。
　　第一次跟他见面时，我记得他给我的名片上是一家投资公司的董事长，而且，他开的车是奔驰，住在珠江公寓，那是上海最昂贵的房子之一，我想他的经济实力应该不错。
　　可交往一段时间以后，我发现他人很小气，很少送我礼物，并且，经常带我去吃快餐，说他时间紧张，我觉得他就是为了省钱。有一次，我们去逛街，我看好了一个Dior的包包，才要二千多元，我要他买给我，可他一听吓一跳，“什么！巴掌大的包包就要2000多元，买一张牛皮才多少钱呵。”
　　那天虽然在我的坚持下，他还是把包包给我买了，但我看得出他有些不高兴，后来我们一起吃饭的时候，他突然对我说，“我要娶的是老婆，不是姨太太。”
　　我也很不高兴，不客气地回敬他，“你是真有钱还是假有钱呵，买个包包就心疼死了，我的朋友还买一万多的LV包包呢，这算什么呀。”
　　那天他真的生气了拂袖而去，走的时候对我说，“你一个月赚多少薪水你自己知道吧，2000多元，一个没有你的手掌大的包就用掉你一个月的薪水，你觉得这正常吗？我的钱都是我辛辛苦苦赚来的，我不会像你这么挥霍。”
　　我丝毫不否认我是不折不扣的“月光族”，自从我工作以来，每个月2000多元的薪水，没几天就用光了，我还得向我妈要呢，可我要是有钱，我找你干吗呵，男人赚钱不就是给女人花的吗？　回家把这事跟我妈一说，我妈也不干了，“跟他吹，这么小气的男人谁会把女儿嫁给他呀，不就才买个包包吗？这还没叫他给我们买房子呢，这样的男人靠不住。”
　　我妈说了，看一个男人是不是对女人好，主要体现在他是否舍得给女人花钱，只有真正舍得给你花钱的男人才是可以考虑的对象，我挺认同我妈的话的，虽然，那个男人后来又给我送花又向我道歉的，我理都不要理他，这样小气的男人不在我的视野之中。
　　后来，我就遇到了我现在的男朋友黄先生，他人还不错，也挺有实力的，这次我妈让他给我买钻戒，就是想考验一下他的经济实力，再说他有两套房子，如果都买下来的话，将来我们住一套，给我父母一套也挺不错的。
　　可就是让我心烦的是，他总说我太任性、太娇气、太不成熟，说跟我有代沟，沟通困难，他不就比我大六岁吗？我妈说男人大了点儿好，会知道疼我，可他整天除了工作就是应酬，连陪我的时间都保障不了，这次到北京来，还是我跟他说要跟他分手，才“逼”他来的，说我任性，我妈就我一个宝贝女儿，我不任性谁任性，我妈说了，男人都喜欢娇气的女孩，我娇气一点儿有什么不好，偏偏他不喜欢这一点。
　　说我不成熟，这我承认，我一路名校走过来，大学毕业又留在校园里，我接触的现实很少，可我干吗要那么成熟？我就做我的小女生好了，每天聊聊时尚，说说八卦，快快乐乐的不好吗？可他说我这叫浅薄，他怀疑我的大学文凭是怎么拿到的？我是考出来的，是全部通过考试得到呀，从小班主任就夸我，说我是最会考试的孩子，从来不需要家长和老师操心。
　　我妈妈对我说，女孩子只要漂亮、苗条就可以了，不需要懂太多，可他不这么说，他说，女孩子除了要漂亮、苗条，还应该善解人意，懂得关照别人。我知道他这么说，是因为有一件事情，他一直很生气。那是因为有一次，他到香港出差，我一定要跟他去，结果到了香港以后，我每天从早逛到晚，一口气买了五个名牌的手袋，而他在酒店的房间里发烧到40°，我都不知道，后来，还是酒店的人帮他叫了救护车，我回到酒店以后，他人不见了，在服务台给我留的言我也没看到。
第二天我继续出去逛，直到信用卡刷爆了，才想起向他求助，他告诉我，正在医院输液，这件事让他很伤心，认定我是一个特别不懂事的女孩。可是，我妈也没告诉我怎么照顾别人呵，从小到大都是妈妈照顾我，而且，妈妈还说，将来我嫁的这个男人，一定得懂得照顾我，疼爱我才行，难道还需要我去照顾男人吗？
　　要不是看在他有两套房子的份儿上，我早就想跟他吹了，这种男人要求太多，你说我要容貌有容貌，要身材有身材，还一路名校读过来，我已经很完美了，在我们弄堂那是百里挑一的，追我的人多了，也就是我妈看他人还算老实，这次钻戒买回去，这事也算定了，要是不想给我买，他也别想再跟我往下继续，我们的确是两代人，我们这代人不喜欢虚的，有情有意你就拿出点儿实际行动来，得舍得投入才行，否则，别相互浪费时间，我的青春宝贵，我可不想让这样一个男人给耽误了。
　　说来也巧，司爽的话音刚落，朋友黄先生出现在茶馆的门口，我认为司爽会有些尴尬，但他却神情自若地和男朋友打着招呼，仿佛刚才发那一“毒誓”的女孩不是她。
　　气氛不对，我也想匆匆开溜，朋友居然也没留我，接下来的几天我都有些左右为难，不知朋友问我要答案时我该怎么说。
　　俗话说，宁拆一座庙，不散一桩婚，人家的婚姻大事我实在不想掺和，更何况那上海女孩司爽实在是有些可怕，按我的看法，那是属于万万不可娶的之列的，但我不想让这件事跟我有关，因为，感情的事常常旁观者清，当局者迷，谁也说不清楚。
　　大概三天以后，朋友从上海给我发了一个电子邮件，上面写着：“仅为一颗钻石就跟你大闹三天的女孩，你以前碰到过吗？我碰到了，怕了，80后女孩。”

ZT: 怀念父亲

http://bbs2.creaders.net/tea/messages/1472511.html
（2007年8月3日）
父亲离开我们快三年了，作为儿媳妇的我，一直想写点什么，缘于我对父亲无尽的思念。父亲他老人家实在是太平凡了，善良而慈祥，勤劳而质朴，生活简单而无奢求。在这三年中，我们的生活也发生了很大的改变，从欧洲大陆登上了北美，从漂泊而拮据的求学生涯也逐渐过渡到现在经济略宽松生活更安定的新生活中来。在岁月的磨砺下，我们也变得更加成熟，对人生幸福有了更多更深刻地感悟。唯一不变的是心中那份对故国家园的深深眷恋和怀念以及没有陪伴父亲走完他最后那段日子的无尽地愧疚。

记得三年前，正当我老公准备博士论文答辩的时候，我们听到了父亲生病的消息，并且十分严重。我们十分焦急，老公通过申请，他的博士论文答辩被推迟二个月时间。我们急匆匆地利用这两个月时间从万里之遥赶到父亲身边，陪伴父亲到县人民医院作检查和治疗。在那个时候，让我们感到高兴的是，父亲的病情在手术后，逐渐好转。时间过得飞快，转眼间，二个月时间到了，老公的博士毕业答辩却不能再推迟，我们十分不舍地又回到了欧洲。在离开老公那个小山村的时候，我们一家人都忍不住地流泪，这个场景让我们永生难忘。到了欧洲，我们又开始了紧张的求学，正在老公最关键准备答辩的时候，父亲的病情又开始恶化，被紧急送到医院，可是第二天凌晨，我们却得到了噩耗，父亲平静地离开了我们。而在那天下午2点，老公的博士论文答辩就要开始。他的导师，知道这个噩耗后，心情极不平静，开始给学校各个部门联系，要求再一次推迟答辩。然而这个时候，学校的答辩委员会已经组成，没有再推迟的可能。师母下午也取消了她的计划，一直陪伴我们，并跟我们说，“孩子，你们的父亲会给你们力量的”。此时，我们实实在在感到了父亲的力量，下午老公以全优成绩通过论文答辩。他的导师此时紧紧地拥抱我们，激动地说不出话来，老公只是一个劲地流泪。或许这是天意吧，即使父亲离开我们的时候，也要让我们感到学业上的成功和收获。

我们感到十分愧疚，却没有办法去弥补。父亲是一个非常慈祥的老人，在他最需要我们的时候，我们却在千里万里之外，尽管梦里不知多少次回到父亲身边，但终因时间和空间的距离让我们没有尽到最后的孝道。虽然我和老公结婚没有几年，但我十分喜欢老公的父母，俩老不经意间做的许多的事情，让我十分感动；他们那样的纯朴和和蔼，让我永生难忘。记得几年前，老公家中的经济状况远不如今天这样。父母亲的生活在那个时候十分辛苦。我忘不了妈妈身后背着一大捆柴火从山间崎岖的小路上走来；看到我们时脸上露出慈祥笑容的神情；忘不了春节回家，当晚上客人都走后，我们和父母亲围坐在大厅的炉火旁聊家常那份久违的温馨。记得父亲说，他最想体会在炎炎夏日里喝刚从冰箱中拿出来的冰镇雪碧的冰爽。当我们要给他们卖一个冰箱时，他们说什么也不答应。说，只是说说而已，夏天吃自己种的西瓜也同样清凉解暑。其实，我们清楚的很，父亲考虑到我们的生活刚刚起步，不宽裕，不想跟我们增加负担。后来，我们在电器店里要买空调，也被他们百般推辞。后来，干脆说，空调在家乡不实用。然而，几年后的今天，我们对此一直感到十分遗憾。

父亲不但是实实在在的农民，而且听老公说，父亲年轻时是当地出色的石匠。父亲还有绝活，那就是当地土窑烧青砖看“火候”的绝活。什么时候转火非常重要，火过了，砖就会严重变形；火不足了，砖就还是红的砖坯，强度也不好。父亲从小就练就凭肉眼看火的本领，恰到好处，烧出来的砖个个色青，经久耐用。谁家要烧青砖，都请父亲帮忙。不过，父亲也能从这里得到一些微薄的收入，补贴家用。

当然，父亲最出色的本领，还是石雕。父亲喜欢石雕，早年，他上过庐山去给人修别墅。我也看过父亲的作品，就在小山村里很多民房大门梁框上还装饰着父亲的作品。这些石雕一般都是二龙戏珠，百鸟嘲讽，八仙过海，李白醉酒，渊明五柳什么的，都雕得栩栩如生，很有功力。村里人也很喜欢他的石雕。就在父亲离开我们之前的那年，他还主持重修了村里的祠堂。但那个时候，他再也雕不动石雕了，可他有一个心愿，希望放两个石狮在祠堂的门前。可是村里没有钱卖。他在电话中，征询我的建议。当时，作为长期生活在北方城市中的我，还不是很理解他的做法。可是，我却不愿违了他的心意，还是卖了一对石狮，巍巍立于在村中祠堂前，也算是增添了一份景观吧。想起，石狮披上红绸时，父亲欣慰的笑容，我现在感到一份开心和快乐。我在做了这些年南方媳妇后，我才真正理解了祠堂在父亲心中的分量，这也是他老人家留给我们的最后一个作品。在老公那个小山村，祠堂是权威的象征，祖宗是宗法权力的合法的源泉。孝是不证自明的真理，它凝集着全村人对先人的敬畏和怀念。其实，现在祠堂也成我们怀念父亲的地方。

很多人说，中国的父母对儿女是最富有牺牲精神的，而中国的儿女也是最能理解父母的勤苦和愿报父母的养育之恩的。而我们出来这么久，没有时间陪伴在父母身边，平时就只能打几个越洋电话，这也应该是很多海外学子心中永远的痛。而我们唯一能做就是踏踏实实地，把得来成绩作为礼物送给父母。

堂堂正正地做人做事，做无愧于心的事，这也是父亲对我们的期望和鞭策。事实上，父亲就是我们的榜样，无形中给了我们无尽的力量。父亲那并不伟岸身躯，却能担起大家庭的重担，也得到了儿女们的尊敬和爱戴。父亲的两个兄弟，早逝，留下了三个女儿，父母亲便把他们抚养成人，上学，成家，这一点深受乡里敬佩。父亲也十分乐于助人的人，父亲是村那一带的热心人也是能人。谁家有不能解决的事情，都愿意来找父亲商量。父亲还是爱好广泛的活跃人士，每当村里有唱戏和表演地方戏的活动时，就有人来家中请父亲出山。当全家人在村口的小戏台前看父亲表演当地的地方戏曲时，是我们的全家人的骄傲。现在每当想起那些熟悉的画面，心中都不仅泛起酸楚，泪水盈于眼眶。而对于我，并没有和父亲生活在一起很久，只是春节的时候，回去很短暂的一段日子。我也只能从那些仅有一些片段里怀念父亲。记得，第一次见到父亲时的似曾相识，让我感到和这个家的缘分是注定的。那时房子很旧，还有被洪水淹的水迹，但我的心里却时甜蜜的。也忘不了是父亲的原因，让我与绿茶“庐山云雾”结下了不解之缘。父亲家还有自己做的新茶，我十分喜爱，绿油油，清澈澈，清香似淳，又多了几分乡土气息。从自，我便爱上了品茶和与其有关的一切。那个时候，父亲身体尚可，在我要离开之前，他亲自去了离家很远的产茶之乡买了云雾茶，送给我带回城里。自此后，每当“偷得浮生半日闲”时便沏一杯带着家乡味道的云雾茶，想着家门前对着的那道水湾，对父亲的怀念就总是萦绕在眼前。

有人说，父爱是深沉的，他们往往不善于用语言来表达心中的感情，但我们能在每一个小小的细节上感受到那一份沉甸甸的父爱。忘不了和年迈的父亲走在从老公姐姐家回来的路上。由于那个时候父亲身体已经不是很好，我就陪伴父亲走远但比较平坦的路。一路上我踏歌而行，我记得唱得是《爱我中华》，我希望我的欢乐能感染到他，我陪着父亲在黄昏的夕阳下一路欢歌到家，这也成了我回忆中弥足珍贵的片段。

记得我最后一次与父亲分离的时刻，心里仿佛意识到这个分离的一刻可能就是永别。在送我们上车前的最后一刻，父亲握住我们的手，眼中饱含泪水，不知该如何告别，我们也意识语塞，一切留恋的话语都尽在不言中。父亲说，他们会想我们的，让我们经常打电话回家。我们点头时，泪水滚落，无语凝噎。在父亲一再嘱咐我们要一路小心声中，我们依依不舍地离开了家，也永别了父亲。这一别，也就是整整三年。

如今，不知道还能为父亲做点什么，在他那个没有病痛的世界里，父亲一定会看着我们，保佑我们。愿父亲安息！

ZT: 4 fiscal lessons you need to teach your kids

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/pf/20070807_financial_lessons_for_kids_a1.asp

Think Junior won't notice that mounting debt and empty retirement account? Think again. According to a 2001 survey by the American Savings Education Council, 94 percent of children ranked their parents as their primary financial educators.

Kate Fitzgibbon still sees that trend today. "Kids really pick up financial literacy from their parents and that's a scary thing considering where our country is right now with the savings rate at an all-time low," says Fitzgibbon, spokeswoman for the children's financial literacy Web site Planet Orange, a program run by ING Direct.

"One of the most important things parents can do is teach their kids good money-management skills and model those skills themselves," say Fitzgibbon.

Today's parents face many challenges, including teaching their children good financial habits. These four fiscal lessons are a good foundation for your kids' sound money management in the future.

Differentiate between needs and wants

The first lesson is often the hardest: Learn the difference between basic and discretionary spending.

"Parents need to explain that things you don't think about, like electricity and water, cost money," says Fitzgibbon. "When kids ask for a new video game system, that goes into the 'want' category, not the 'need' category."

Statistically, fewer and fewer parents are directly discussing the difference between needs and wants. Capital One reports that in 2006, only 43 percent of parents had spoken with their children about the difference, a figure more than 20 percentage points lower than that of the year before.

Neale S. Godfrey, author of "Money Doesn't Grow on Trees: A Parent's Guide to Raising Financially Responsible Children," says parents can help kids understand basic-needs spending in two ways.

First, incorporate children into the spending process by showing them exactly how much it costs to run a household. "Pay yourself in cash for the month, then say 'OK, this is the money,'" says Godfrey. "'It looks like a lot, but here's the tax bracket we're in, so count out money for the tax man. Then there's gas, utilities, mortgage, car, etc.' It goes quickly."

Once your children understand the money that goes into running a household, incorporate them into the savings process by encouraging them to help reduce household spending. Godfrey says she shows her children the household electric bill, then brainstorms with them on ways to reduce electrical use. If the next month's bill is lower, Godfrey gives her children a portion of the difference in cash.

Share the secrets of saving

"The major thing we can teach our children is saving," says Geoff Wilson, vice president of volunteer initiatives for the nonprofit financial literacy organization, Junior Achievement Worldwide.

Personal savings are the key to college, retirement, homeownership and anything else in your financial future. Personal savings rates in the United States, however, have declined significantly in the past 20 years, according to data collected by the Federal Reserve System.

Godfrey chalks at least part of the savings problem up to a lack of awareness. "The only thing kids see us do with money is spend it," she says. "They don't see us save, they don't see us give to charity, they don't see us pay bills, so it's essential to involve them in the rest of the process."
One way to do that, Wilson says, is to show them your own savings vehicles and explain how money grows when it's invested. To bring those figures into perspective, have your child pick out an item he or she wants, such as a toy, day trip or amusement park pass, and discuss how much of his allowance he'll have to invest and over what time period to be able to afford it.

For older children, use that same process to calculate how much the family will need to save for a college education. Bankrate's savings goal calculator can help you demonstrate.

"Kids love to see their money grow," says Wilson. As an example, if a 15-year-old began investing a dollar a day until she reaches age 65, she will have amassed over a half-million dollars, assuming a 10 percent average annual interest rate.

Instill smart spending habits

After learning to pay themselves via savings, kids need to learn how to pay others.

Fitzgibbon says that the easiest way to drive spending and budgeting lessons home is to let children earn some cash, then guide them in their purchasing decisions. "Handing kids an allowance and then not helping them decide where that money should go isn't cutting it," Fitzgibbon says. "Parents need to show why they make the purchasing decisions they do."
Perhaps the reason most parents don't discuss their spending choices with their children is because they're not making the right ones themselves. A survey by the AllianceBernstein investment firm found that more than half of all parents spent more on dining out in the past year than they did on saving for college; 49 percent blew more dough on vacations.

But poor spending decisions also can be effective financial lessons, says Ameriprise Financial private wealth adviser Renee Hanson. She advocates that parents openly discuss financial woes (in general terms if it's a sensitive subject) and allow their children to make a few poor choices of their own.

"Kids need to make poor purchasing decisions early on to understand how to avoid making big mistakes later," Hanson says. "Parents can also discuss regret. Tell your kids, 'This is the decision I made and this is the cost of that decision,' so that your child can make a different decision in the future."

Hanson believes that allowing children to make a few poor purchasing decisions also helps them understand the value of their money and the things it can buy.

"My daughter bought a pair of Nike shoes for $94, which I thought was outrageous," Hanson says. "The back of the shoes rubbed down pretty quickly and she was furious. She wrote to the company and they replaced them. If I had bought them, she never would have done that."

Keep out of credit quicksand

Want to keep your kids out of debt? Teach them about the cost of credit long before they're old enough to carry plastic, says Hanson.

Credit card debt of high school and college students continues to grow; the average college senior has more than $2,800 in credit card debt, according to Nellie Mae, a student loan company that is a subsidiary of the SLM Corp., popularly known as Sallie Mae. To stem that debt tide, parents need to reach their kids before credit card companies do.

"It is not uncommon for a child who has $10 to choose a $15 item to buy and ask mom and dad for the (extra) money," Hanson says. "But it's important for parents to say 'OK, I will loan it to you and you will pay me back over these amount of months and with this amount of interest.'"
One risk-free way to teach your children about plastic is to hand them a prepaid card when they are as young as age 10. Godfrey says that the card helps kids equate purchases made with plastic to money being subtracted from their account, but without the risk of high-interest debt.

"If you hand them their own credit card, it's like handing them the keys to a car and saying 'Figure it out while you're driving,'" says Godfrey. "I let them have a cash card and a finite amount of money. When it's gone, it's gone."

Godfrey also advocates openly discussing the family's credit status with older children.
"A lot of parents will say 'I've messed up my credit! How can I possibly talk to my kids?' but that's the whole point," Godfrey says. "With our kids we get to do it over."